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  #41  
Old 06-29-2017, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoanonstop View Post

If this stuff is so important, please explain to me why the majority of people need their hands held to learn it. I have two thoughts; either people don't find this topic interesting or they are too lazy to improve themselves outside of this defined structure.
Because most people don't prefer it, personally it is not my favorite thing, however that doesn't mean it doesn't add value and isn't necessary.

I think it makes sense to require it because it forces you to grow in an area that you wouldn't seek out due to natural curiosity.



Quote:
Originally Posted by whoanonstop View Post

You're right. "This looks amazingly boring" is a pretty toxic comment. I must be the only one in the entire world who thinks ethics/professionalism is boring. In fact, it begs the question why this course even exists. Everyone here is salivating for more of this content.
Given that your post was aimed at content produced by the OP I would classify it as socially unaware and rude at the least. It's not like you took the course and could give us a critique. You just flat out criticized without viewing the content, not understanding that it is important and some people do value it.

I find reading law cases incredibly boring. I would never go read all the cases on the books for fun. Does that make the knowledge from these cases worthless, because I/me one person does not prefer to study them?
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  #42  
Old 06-29-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by redearedslider View Post
This except with credentialed actuaries performing skits
Yes please. Seriously if we were able to poke some fun at ethics/professional content with awkward skits, I would learn a LOT.

-Riley
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  #43  
Old 06-29-2017, 03:49 PM
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Hey, at least =somebody= didn't manage to slap a "community service" requirement on top of the CE requirement. (that was before my time, fwiw)
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  #44  
Old 06-29-2017, 04:08 PM
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I'll ask a simple question. Does what others do define what you should do?
In some cases, no it shouldn’t. A lot of good ideas come from challenging the status quo. However I don’t think it applies here. I couldn’t see any reputable organization saying: “No we don’t have a code of conduct because we think the classes that teach its application would be too boring.” Or “Yeah we have a code of conduct, but we just trust that everyone will follow it, so we don’t require any professionalism credit.”
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  #45  
Old 06-29-2017, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollMaster View Post
Given that your post was aimed at content produced by the OP I would classify it as socially unaware and rude at the least. It's not like you took the course and could give us a critique.
Point taken, but I'd be surprised if the content creator isn't aware that the concepts he is speaking about are generally boring. I'd hope that he is secure in his own teaching methodologies that a pleb like me doesn't hurt his feelings. However, I think our movement away from "real talk" to being "politically safe" has more to do with staying away from personal discomfort than benefiting others.

The worst thing I've ever seen is a project that gains momentum because nobody had the balls to stand up and ask the basic question of "why are we doing this". Sure, sometimes the project still gets done, but there is better clarity around the objectives.

-Riley
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  #46  
Old 06-29-2017, 04:53 PM
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I do think the CoP is plenty enough as far as professionalism goes. I'm an adult, I don't need to be constantly reminded not to break the law. Nor do I think those who are less scrupulous will suddenly change their perspective on life due to continuing education requirements.

Was something like that so hard to say Riley? Your first comment showed that there's room for improvement on your how to win friends and influence people skills.
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  #47  
Old 06-29-2017, 04:58 PM
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I'll ask a simple question. Does what others do define what you should do?
Well that depends on what the other guy does. If I know he's going to keep his mouth shut, I will too. Otherwise it's in my best interest to confess.
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  #48  
Old 06-29-2017, 04:59 PM
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ASM does not have a discussion of stimulation, but considering how boring the manual is, maybe it would be a good idea.
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  #49  
Old 06-29-2017, 05:03 PM
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I am on the Modeling Section council. One of the things we do is plan out sessions at various actuarial meetings, and one of our best-received sessions was on professionalism in modeling.

It's this one:
Quote:
SESSION 165 PANEL DISCUSSION:
PROFESSIONALISM ASPECTS OF MODEL EFFICIENCY
Moderator: Anthony Dardis, FSA, CERA, FIA, MAAA
Presenters: James A. Miles, FSA, MAAA; Yifeng (Jeffrey) Mu,
FSA, CERA, FCIA

This session examined aspects of the professional code of
conduct that need to be considered in the context of model efficiency.
This included the important topic of model validation,
an especially difficult area when one considers how some model
efficiency techniques can be extremely complex technically, so
that validation results are clear and easily communicated. This
is crucial for actuaries to understand. Additionally, this panel
discussed the relevant ASOPs that come into consideration
when using model efficiency techniques and the use of model
efficiency to support statutory calculations and reporting—
when is it appropriate—and considerations to be borne in mind.
(See session slides at https://www.soa.org/Files/Pd/2016/annual-
meeting/pd-2016-10-annual-session-165.pdf.)
For those who are SOA members, you can go here:
https://www.soa.org/prof-dev/events/...ing---Exhibit/

You should see this to the upper right:
Quote:
Audio Recording
Purchase
Member Price: $0

Nonmember Price: $450
And you can listen to the audio, in sync with the slides.

The modeling section sponsored several sessions at the 2016 Annual Meeting -- and it received an Outstanding Session Award from the SOA -- one of only 5 sessions from that meeting that got the award, based on audience ratings.

I've been to several professionalism-related talks at actuarial meetings (not because I need the CE - I generally have 5x what's needed. I record only the minimum.) I will not argue that it's always scintillating, but I have often learned things from these, whether webcasts, in person, or recordings from live meetings.
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  #50  
Old 06-29-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
I do think the CoP is plenty enough as far as professionalism goes. I'm an adult, I don't need to be constantly reminded not to break the law. Nor do I think those who are less scrupulous will suddenly change their perspective on life due to continuing education requirements.

.
I think this is a slight under simplification of the issue. Ethics is not always mainly about breaking laws, there is a lot of gray area there.

Things can be unethical and a conflict of interest, but still be legal. No harm in having case studies and continuing education that helps you make better decisions along this continuum.
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