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  #41  
Old 03-13-2017, 01:00 PM
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Just throwing this out there since I've done a ton of research on this stuff lately, but Vicoustic has some really good looking acoustic treatment options. It's expensive as shit, but it's pro quality treatment that looks about 10,000 times better than eggshell foam.

(I'd be doing this instead of making my own if money were no object, but for them to come out and analyze my room and set me up, I'd probably be looking at $5,000.)
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  #42  
Old 03-13-2017, 07:32 PM
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Just throwing this out there since I've done a ton of research on this stuff lately, but Vicoustic has some really good looking acoustic treatment options. It's expensive as shit, but it's pro quality treatment that looks about 10,000 times better than eggshell foam.

(I'd be doing this instead of making my own if money were no object, but for them to come out and analyze my room and set me up, I'd probably be looking at $5,000.)
It does look nice. Absorbing sound at higher freqs isn't terribly hard, and you could probably make it look good without spending a ton. I'm not super well-versed in psychoacoustics, but I believe if you can knock down the early reflections a bit, even just in the higher frequencies, you'll get decent benefit with minimal expense.

Their claims that those wall panels can be used as bass traps is BS though. Cutting 1/2" grooves in wood isn't gonna do jack to bass waves. If you could de-couple the walls from the studs, and screw two sheets of drywall together with constrained layer damping... you might make a small dent. Otherwise, you have those big tubular things, which act as Helmholtz resonators.
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  #43  
Old 03-14-2017, 08:33 AM
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It does look nice. Absorbing sound at higher freqs isn't terribly hard, and you could probably make it look good without spending a ton. I'm not super well-versed in psychoacoustics, but I believe if you can knock down the early reflections a bit, even just in the higher frequencies, you'll get decent benefit with minimal expense.
Yup, that's pretty much exactly how I'm going to go about tackling my studio. Owens Corning 703 for the absorbers on first reflection points, Owens Corning 705 for bass traps in the corners, then the diffuser on the wall sitting directly behind me. I'm taking measurements to try to figure out approximately how much absorption I need, but my room is like 9'x9', lath and plaster, and hardwood floors, so first reflection points and bass traps are going to get me 90% there.

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Their claims that those wall panels can be used as bass traps is BS though. Cutting 1/2" grooves in wood isn't gonna do jack to bass waves. If you could de-couple the walls from the studs, and screw two sheets of drywall together with constrained layer damping... you might make a small dent. Otherwise, you have those big tubular things, which act as Helmholtz resonators.
I'm honestly not sure why they put that in the description of the absorbers, because yeah, 60mm of foam and board isn't going to do anything to bass frequencies. Hell, it even shows you that in the graph half a page down. But they do have actual wave wood bass traps, which are appropriately constructed: https://www.vicoustic.com/product/super-bass-extreme.
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Last edited by vividox; 03-14-2017 at 08:41 AM..
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  #44  
Old 03-14-2017, 11:40 AM
George Frankly George Frankly is offline
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Yup, that's pretty much exactly how I'm going to go about tackling my studio. Owens Corning 703 for the absorbers on first reflection points, Owens Corning 705 for bass traps in the corners, then the diffuser on the wall sitting directly behind me. I'm taking measurements to try to figure out approximately how much absorption I need, but my room is like 9'x9', lath and plaster, and hardwood floors, so first reflection points and bass traps are going to get me 90% there.



I'm honestly not sure why they put that in the description of the absorbers, because yeah, 60mm of foam and board isn't going to do anything to bass frequencies. Hell, it even shows you that in the graph half a page down. But they do have actual wave wood bass traps, which are appropriately constructed: https://www.vicoustic.com/product/super-bass-extreme.
That is a small room, I can see why reflections are a big deal, they are going to hit you very close in time to the original signal. And hardwood floors aren't helping, though I'd still prefer solid flooring over carpet. A nice thick rug is an easy add.

Now that you've got this on my brain, I should measure out my room and see how my reflections may look. I'll have the speakers toed in quite a bit, to the point my right speaker may reflect off the left wall, and vice versa, but the right speaker won't reflect off the right wall, because of the directivity of my speakers. My room is maybe 25' deep, so reflections off the back wall are less concerning.

Do report back with results, I'm really curious about room treatments now.

In case you're interested, the speakers I ordered can be seen here. There is a polar chart on the page, once you get oriented to how he displays the data, you can see that the speakers are pretty flat to about 40 degrees off-axis in the horizontal plane throughout most of the passband.
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  #45  
Old 03-14-2017, 02:06 PM
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Do report back with results, I'm really curious about room treatments now.
I will, although it might be awhile before I have much to report - this is an entire room makeover so the actual acoustic treatment part of it hasn't made much progress yet.
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  #46  
Old 03-24-2017, 11:37 AM
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A friend of mine is offering to sell me a pair of near-new Tekton 21" subs at a remarkable price. I'm full up on subs, but man, these are tempting!
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  #47  
Old 03-31-2017, 03:28 PM
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A friend of mine is offering to sell me a pair of near-new Tekton 21" subs at a remarkable price. I'm full up on subs, but man, these are tempting!
I popped on these, for some strange reason. They look comically large. Well, the drivers do, the boxes aren't super-huge. And they are relatively thin, so not all that hard to live with.

My only concern is they are vented, not monopoles, so I'll have some group delay to deal with.
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  #48  
Old 04-10-2017, 01:17 PM
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Any recommendations for an "audiophile on a budget"?

I don't need room-shaking bass. In fact, my ears can no longer handle loud volume. I just want accurate reproduction of sound.

I posted the following in the Sonos thread earlier today:

I have a cheap (but surprisingly decent) Vizio home-theater-in-a-box in 2 different rooms in the house. They work well enough for movies. But they're crappy for music.

I have a pair of DCM TF600 speakers that are 25 years old, and have been sitting unused for several years. They sound great, but my wife hates the look of them (big black wedge-looking things, and they require frequent vacuuming to stay clean). Plus they lack low bass. I have an old Harman Kardon AVR25 receiver, but it doesn't have optical inputs.

I don't need any more home theater stuff. But I would really like to start adding music around the house, or at least have a listening room where my ugly speakers won't bother my wife.

Random options I'm trying to sort through:

* Buy a Chord Mojo DAC, which also serves as a headphone amplifier. Then I could listen to really nice headphones while in bed. In fact, one can play two sets of headphones through it at once. Would be nice for listening to music with my wife or one of my kids, and not having to pass one set of headphones back and forth. I could also use it to connect my laptop or Apple TV to my HK receiver and listen to streamed audio, including maybe Tidal Lossless. If I go this route, I'd like some nicer headphones than my current ones. Maybe get some Sennheiser HD700 phones, which can be had for $400 these days (went for $1000 when released). I tend to do a somewhat U-shaped adjustment in EQ, so these headphones would probably work well "out of the box" for me. Unfortunately, I live in the 'po and can't go check them out before buying.

* Wait until Fry's has a great deal on one of the better Denon receivers, like the X3300 or X4300, which sometimes go on sale for half off, then build from there. But of course, then I'd be sticking with the traditional wired setup. And I really don't want to run wiring all over my house. And I'm not planning to have a dedicated, really fancy home theater room any time soon.

I'm probably years away from moving, but I also don't feel like throwing a lot of money into my current house to get my audio just right. So the Sonos system has a lot of appeal in terms of current and future flexibility.

As you can tell, I'm all over the place. Part of me thinks the headphone route is a way to go, because you can get so much quality for a lot less than a comparable speaker system. But with headphones, you can't feel the music the way you can with speakers.

Lots to sort through...
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  #49  
Old 04-10-2017, 01:55 PM
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I will offer a few random thoughts.

Check out the Peachtree M24 speakers, they ship soon. Built in DAC and amplifier, they are plug and play. There's a sub output if you want to add a bit of bass. I heard these last year, they aren't world-class, but they are $250. At the price I can't name anything that comes close.

A Denon or Yamaha receiver is a good option, takes a bit more space. For speakers, I suggest checking out Craigslist. I see a ton of good buys on Klipsch, NHT, Monitor, etc. Quite a few options that are near mint, often at less than half the price they sold for when new. If you get tired of them you can break even selling them.

The Klipsch Quintet is a good option if you want or need tiny speakers.

If you can pull off a listening room, that would be great. Could dust off the DCM, or get something else equally huge and hideous. I use Klipsch CF4 at the moment, with four giant subs.
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  #50  
Old 04-10-2017, 11:48 PM
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My wife told me to go ahead and get what I want ... within reason.

I found this very interesting article about "audiophile on a budget":

http://geekometry.com/2014/07/projec...e-on-a-budget/

The author highly recommends the Outlaw 950 pre-amp, and the Outlaw Ultra-X12 subwoofer. I could find a 950 on eBay for $165 delivered, but the inputs and outputs are really outdated. I kept talking myself into newer versions of the Outlaw preamp on eBay, for more and more money, especially if I wanted the option of returning the equipment if I didn't like it.

It just so happens that Outlaw is running a spring sale on their website. Not only did they have the X12 subwoofer for a nice savings, but they also had a good deal on the 975 preamp, a much more modern preamp than the 950, with HDMI inputs, various bass modes for the subwoofer and up to 7.1 decoding.

My old Harmon Kardon AVR25 offers a couple of different ways to use it as an amp with signal coming from an external pre-amp, so I will use that for now, and might look at separate dedicated amps later. I hooked up my HK receiver to my DCM speakers, playing Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms" CD, and it sounded pretty good. Just like I remembered, though, my setup could really benefit from a good subwoofer, so it's going to be a lot of fun to see what the new system can do.
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