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  #81  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydraskull View Post
I'm amazed that you have an AO account.

This thread just got JUICY!
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  #82  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by r. mutt View Post
That is not the question being asked, but thanks.
There might be enough information in that graph to compare current emergency responder mortality to the 1971 table, though.

Which isn't the question, either, but would be interesting and somewhat relevant.
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  #83  
Old 02-23-2017, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jas66Kent View Post
I can't think of a good actuarial justification for using 1971 mortality tables tbh.

If the DOI mandated it, you would have to.
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  #84  
Old 02-23-2017, 11:28 PM
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i would also like to let everyone know that i am not a pension actuary or a lawyer
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  #85  
Old 02-24-2017, 12:41 AM
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Literally just watched several minutes of a a video of a 2009 la grange village board meeting talking about their pension, after googling this. I need better hobbies.
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  #86  
Old 02-24-2017, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by whisper View Post

If the DOI mandated it, you would have to.
If the DOI were to tell me that I would qualify my actuarial opinion and give my reasoning as to why I thought the more modern tables were a better fit. I would also give them those calculations, and show them the funding differential.

My personal view in this case is that your professional judgement should not be overriden simply because the DOI is telling you to do something else.

Also, if that means losing clients.....then so be it. At the end of the day, a paycheck is not worth your professional reputation.
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  #87  
Old 02-24-2017, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by r. mutt View Post
Meh, jumped the shark in '89.







Maybe said NYT reporter will also join the conversation! That's been known to happen here.
I think we're more likely to get an(other) article in the NYT about this than to have the reporter comment in here directly.


And yes, there are non-actuaries reading the AO but not commenting.
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  #88  
Old 02-24-2017, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lllj View Post
Literally just watched several minutes of a a video of a 2009 la grange village board meeting talking about their pension, after googling this. I need better hobbies.
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  #89  
Old 02-24-2017, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamTheOlympicEagle View Post
Skimming the complaint is worth it.

Liked these nuggets:
https://www.soa.org/Library/Newslett...2014-iss10.pdf

from the newsletter of the Social Insurance & Public Policy section of the SOA, July 2014

Quote:
PUTTING THE “PUBLIC” IN PUBLIC
PLAN ACTUARIAL WORK
By Tia Goss Sawhney
Let's see where she wrote "prostitutes"

Quote:
The other situation occurs when an actuary, who
is otherwise competent, deliberately chooses to
ignore a standard or selects a highly favorable
interpretation of a standard in order to satisfy
the political aims of his/her principal. Based on
my review of pension work and from what I
hear from pension actuaries, these may well be
actuaries working for national firms and serving
large public pension plans. I have heard the word
“prostitute” used with respect to such actuaries.
The mere perception that plan sponsors can buy
a favorable actuarial analysis reflects poorly on
all actuaries.
Heh, like a blind item or a subtweet.

related:
http://www.wirepoints.com/inadequate...lism-wp-guest/
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Last edited by campbell; 02-24-2017 at 06:38 AM..
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  #90  
Old 02-24-2017, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas66Kent View Post
If the DOI were to tell me that I would qualify my actuarial opinion and give my reasoning as to why I thought the more modern tables were a better fit. I would also give them those calculations, and show them the funding differential.

My personal view in this case is that your professional judgement should not be overriden simply because the DOI is telling you to do something else.

Also, if that means losing clients.....then so be it. At the end of the day, a paycheck is not worth your professional reputation.
FWIW, sometimes law/regulators require absurd assumption sets for public plan valuations.

I have asked before if there are any assumption sets so absurd that ethical actuaries couldn't take the assignment, and the answer seems to be "no".

On the other hand, it's pretty easy for you (and me) to take these hard lines, given we don't work in the pension space at all, much less public pensions.
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