Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Cyberchat > Surveys
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #71  
Old 06-25-2019, 02:24 PM
TheGillotine's Avatar
TheGillotine TheGillotine is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 39,461
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTS View Post
My granny was the same. She didn't hold with drinkin', smokin', cussin', card playin', or women who dress like hussies. Surprisingly fun to hang around, for all that.
Yeah the no smoking thing was certainly a benefit imo.
__________________
Spoiler:
There is no dark side of the moon, really...
As a matter of fact it's all dark.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 06-25-2019, 02:27 PM
ARTS's Avatar
ARTS ARTS is offline
Official Reef Pastor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,316
Default

Speaking of plays - I was in a play once in college, and had to smoke a cigarette in one scene. My granny came up afterwards, and said, "Darlin' you did such a good job on that stage. But I did kindly want to slap. your. face. every time you puffed that cigarette."

And with those three words, she gave me three "playful" slaps on the cheek, that were really not all that playful. They hurt! This was a woman who grew up milking cows every day, her bare palm felt like a brick.
__________________
"[ARTS] should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable"
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06-25-2019, 02:28 PM
Vorian Atreides's Avatar
Vorian Atreides Vorian Atreides is offline
Wiki/Note Contributor
CAS
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: As far as 3 cups of sugar will take you
Studying for ACAS
College: Hard Knocks
Favorite beer: Most German dark lagers
Posts: 66,546
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGillotine View Post
I have met someone who thought all Disney movies were Satanic.
Escape to Witch Mountain

Night on Bald Mountain sequence in the original Fantasia

Bedknobs and Broomsticks


Yeah, I can see that.
__________________
I find your lack of faith disturbing

Why should I worry about dying? Itís not going to happen in my lifetime!


Freedom of speech is not a license to discourtesy

#BLACKMATTERLIVES
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06-25-2019, 11:46 PM
Jasper07734's Avatar
Jasper07734 Jasper07734 is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,947
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGillotine View Post
I have met someone who thought all Disney movies were Satanic.
Just take them to Six Flags after each viewing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he0ayNefASc
__________________
The revAOlution will be complete when the language is perfect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper07734 View Post
I was thinking [that the AO is] more like Pocket Pool: You think you're driving your point home hard, until you realize that you're really only busting your own balls
Quote:
Originally Posted by William F. Buckley, Jr.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.
Spoiler:
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:08 AM
Tarot Actuary's Avatar
Tarot Actuary Tarot Actuary is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGillotine View Post
Would you compare that to a baseball player wearing lucky socks every game, thinking they increase his abilities? That seems like magic to me, though it usually isn't called that.
TG, I've thought about this question some more, because something just didn't quite set right. My sense, that I couldn't wrap words around, is that superstition and magic are similar, but different things. But I couldn't quite put my finger on what the difference was I was intuiting.

I reached out to some folks that have thought about questions like this much more deeply than I have, and I'll share some of the answers I got.

This is the question as I posed it:

Spoiler:
I'm not sure how to answer that. My knee-jerk would be to say, that sound like unintentional magic. But then, isn't intent the very heart of magic? Can magic be unintentional, or does intent have to be present to call it magic?
What he's describing is what most people would call a "superstition." Which got me thinking: is there a working definition for superstition, that distinguishes it from magic? I'm not sure I can put words to one.


And these are a couple of the answers that I got that I found most helpful:

Spoiler:
It's certainly magickal thinking.

Spoiler:
"Magic" and "occultism" are umbrella terms that broadly define a whole lot of ideas and practices. Superstition plays a major role in some of them--particularly folk magic and sympathetic magic. Other forms of magic draw more on ideas about the paranormal, spiritual, or mystical--or, in modern times, psychology. the lucky socks analogy can be explained as a type of superstitious practice that may have a psychological effect. This type of activity would be defined as "magical thinking" but not exactly magic.

Spoiler:
You have said unintentional magic and I'd agree with the meaning. However I believe the wrong word choice confuses you. A more apt description would be "Un reformed, aka chaotic magic"
The base ball player fully expects/intends for his luck to increase by the ritual of putting those socks. Socks themselves can be treated as a sigil or a talisman. However due to the luckluster nature of both the foundation behind the ritual and the use of traditionally unresponsive material (cotton or polyester) the effects would again be luckluster. The focus is nearly non existent, luck is such a broad word that unless it is binded by an event or time (or both) it can mean anything.
All beliefs are a potential foundation to do magic as all beliefs are actually manifestation of will; you choose (will) to believe in something. However as I said above since they often don't have a strong foundation their effects are often diminished to the point of neglecance unless your personal feelings is extremely strong.
__________________
Free readings: inquire inside!
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 06-26-2019, 03:17 PM
Dr T Non-Fan Dr T Non-Fan is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Just outside of Nowhere
Posts: 97,807
Default

Meh.

There is practicing magic, performing scientifically proven acts (from a book/internet, so it must work) with the expectation that magic will happen because the book/internet said it would.

And there is doing OCD stuff that is not scientifically proven with the expectation that magic will happen because of it, like superstition.

Both assume magic exist.
And if one thinks magic exists, one must also assume that magic can be done for evil purposes (demonic), since the magic one performs is often for one's benefit and, as a consequence, the demise of another. Conversely, the magic you DON'T do, avoiding black cats and avoiding walking under ladders, allegedly causes one's own demise, i.e., evil and demonic.

(Some of this should be in demonic red font.)
__________________
"Facebook is a toilet." -- LWTwJO

"45 es un titere" -- Seal of The President of The United States of America protest art
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 06-26-2019, 04:18 PM
Tarot Actuary's Avatar
Tarot Actuary Tarot Actuary is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Both assume magic exist.
No, I don't think this necessarily holds up. Not if you mean, on a conscious level. Someone with a completely materialistic, rational worldview can nonetheless come to the conclusion that certain rituals, for whatever reason, can produce effects that seem almost magical. One could easily think of it as a sort of juking of the placebo effect, for example.

Quote:
And if one thinks magic exists, one must also assume that magic can be done for evil purposes (demonic), since the magic one performs is often for one's benefit and, as a consequence, the demise of another. Conversely, the magic you DON'T do, avoiding black cats and avoiding walking under ladders, allegedly causes one's own demise, i.e., evil and demonic.
I think this is very reasonable, but, it would only seem so to a magician that embraces a worldview in which "good" and "evil" are something more than mere human constructs projected onto experiences that, rightly understood, transcend those labels. I tend to embrace such a view, but I've read enough that I could make a compelling argument in the other direction.
__________________
Free readings: inquire inside!
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 06-26-2019, 04:22 PM
TheGillotine's Avatar
TheGillotine TheGillotine is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 39,461
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Meh.

There is practicing magic, performing scientifically proven acts (from a book/internet, so it must work) with the expectation that magic will happen because the book/internet said it would.

And there is doing OCD stuff that is not scientifically proven with the expectation that magic will happen because of it, like superstition.

Both assume magic exist.
And if one thinks magic exists, one must also assume that magic can be done for evil purposes (demonic), since the magic one performs is often for one's benefit and, as a consequence, the demise of another. Conversely, the magic you DON'T do, avoiding black cats and avoiding walking under ladders, allegedly causes one's own demise, i.e., evil and demonic.

(Some of this should be in demonic red font.)
I draw a distinction between evil and demonic. I think demonic outside of a poetic sense should involve otherworldly supernatural beings, probably but not necessarily evil.
__________________
Spoiler:
There is no dark side of the moon, really...
As a matter of fact it's all dark.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 06-26-2019, 04:26 PM
Tarot Actuary's Avatar
Tarot Actuary Tarot Actuary is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 142
Default

This too (I made a similar point in my first post to this thread, so I didn't see the need to belabor it).
__________________
Free readings: inquire inside!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.22750 seconds with 9 queries