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  #21  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:31 PM
Westley Westley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niccalis View Post
Maybe a naive question, but what was wrong with mentioning you work for Jane Doe?
The recruiter was probably fishing for that info (or he wouldn't have mentioned the John Smith thing). So, you're helping him recruit people out of your company (which may or may not be in your interest, but being tricked into it isn't the way you want to go usually).

Also, if this was a while back, the recruiter didn't have access to the website directories, so they'd just try to get names of other actuaries at your company, then call the company's general switchboard and asked to be connected to those people for cold calling purposes.
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  #22  
Old 05-31-2017, 06:43 PM
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Another story about recruiters at the employer. I once applied to a major life insurer. I used the online application and made a few errors:
First error was mentioning employment way back in history with a pension consultant.
Second error was answering YES to a question about notifyi8ng me when openings came up.

For years after that, the company would send me emails about openings in their pension unit for non-actuarial clerical/admin jobs. Sigh.
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  #23  
Old 05-31-2017, 08:42 PM
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In my first office all the actuaries had sequential phone numbers and we answered the phone "Actuarial, Firstname Lastname." Every six months of so someone would dial all the numbers in sequence and hang up after getting the names associated with the numbers. This was pre-internet days.

Westley, I would have looked through her linkedin to figure out who the hiring manager was, sent them a copy of the back and forth, and perhaps commented on the recruiter's issues. But then I am in the DNGAF stage of life.
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  #24  
Old 05-31-2017, 10:57 PM
Westley Westley is offline
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Originally Posted by Loner View Post
Westley, I would have looked through her linkedin to figure out who the hiring manager was, sent them a copy of the back and forth, and perhaps commented on the recruiter's issues. But then I am in the DNGAF stage of life.
Considered it - actually a vague acquaintance (who also is a friend of a very close friend) is a pretty high-up (C-suite) at the company in question.

However, I don't really think that's fair. Because as bad as this person is - and I already said "awful" - I also think this is pretty standard, and there's a reason for it. The reason being, that the hiring manager said "Get me a bunch of resumes with skills X, Y, and Z". And the fastest way to do that may in fact be to ignore all civilities and such and just say "Send me your f'n resume". Whether that makes the company look bad or gets the *best* resumes is a separate question, but I think this person is accomplishing what was asked in perhaps the most time-efficient way possible.

Would love to have an effective way to align the incentives here - get the HR drone in question to actually attempt to deal with the situation in a more civil manner, while also accomplishing the stated goal - but not sure that's really possible because, bottom line: this is probably the most time-effective way to go back to the hiring manager and say "See, I got you a bunch of these resumes you wanted".

So, I don't hate this player, just hate the game.

Last edited by Westley; 05-31-2017 at 11:00 PM..
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  #25  
Old 06-01-2017, 09:18 AM
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Oh my. So many stories. I had a "job seeker" account on Linked In until recently. I got messages from outside recruiters all the time. Their initial message would be pretty vague. "Let's talk" and the conversation, if it happened, would be great. Thing is, the opening they were recruiting for, I had either already applied for myself, or had heard about from someone else (like the recruiters who know what an actuary is, that there's a difference between SOA and CAS, etc.) Sometimes, I'd get an actual lead, and they'd talk a good game and present me, and it would go nowhere.

My advice? Stick to the recruiters who know what they're doing, who have actual contacts in the actuarial field.
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  #26  
Old 06-01-2017, 10:59 AM
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I am (possibly irrationally) annoyed when they ask for a resume prior to chatting with me and telling me about the role. All of that crap is on LinkedIn for cryin' out loud! It's right there, just look at that and if I want you to submit me for a role, I'll send an updated resume.
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  #27  
Old 06-01-2017, 11:38 AM
Westley Westley is offline
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Originally Posted by L. Mo View Post
My advice? Stick to the recruiters who know what they're doing, who have actual contacts in the actuarial field.
Good advice if you want an actuarial job. Most of what I'd be looking for is semi-actuarial, I've dealt with a lot of recruiters that are looking at more financial positions but where actuarial skills/experience are valued. Still annoying the combination of 1) no real idea what an actuary does with 2) long-winded descriptions of their extensive experience with actuaries, but that's part of what you have to deal with. I don't really even find it dishonest or annoying any more, it's just part of how recruiters speak.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WilekOyote View Post
I am (possibly irrationally) annoyed when they ask for a resume prior to chatting with me and telling me about the role. All of that crap is on LinkedIn for cryin' out loud! It's right there, just look at that and if I want you to submit me for a role, I'll send an updated resume.
I don't find it irrational at all. Although I'm not sure what they can see if we're not "linked" - not sure I've paid close attention to the privacy settings or how they work. Can they see all of that regardless? Perhaps.
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  #28  
Old 06-01-2017, 12:27 PM
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Since we are on the weird recruiter story train...

I have been receiving mass-email from two recruiters. One sends a generic greeting message follow by a list of different positions across the country. The other sends me a Resume of the candidate he/she is currently working with. Both of their emails are so blatantly obvious that they just put whatever position into a template and spam whatever email list they have. I don't think I have ever talked to either of them. And their emails just keep on coming.

I'm not sure what they are trying to accomplish here, is this the norm among headhunters in other industries?
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  #29  
Old 06-01-2017, 07:52 PM
Westley Westley is offline
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Something like this email from a person I've never spoken to before about jobs that I'm completely unqualified for in an area I have no interest in?

Quote:
Hi Allen,

I'm reaching out to you because I’m in need of some help. Our client a well-respected Health Plan in Raleigh, North Carolina is looking for TWO Actuaries as they continue to expand their analytics department.
Relocation is required and assistance is available. Will Sponsor.

**Staff Actuary, Healthcare Support - FSA + 7yrs or ASA+MAAA+9yrs and health product pricing.
**Staff Actuary, Medicare Pricing- FSA + 7yrs or ASA+MAAA+9yrs and Medicare Adv or Part D pricing.

This organization strongly values work/life flexibility and has been voted one of the World’s Most Ethical Companies. They’ve also earned the highest level of accreditation from NCQA and offer benefits such as onsite cafeterias, flexible work options, adoption assistance, concierge services, college counseling for families, PTO, back-up childcare and elder-care. Our client is located in a desirable region with excellent schools and a moderate cost of living.

Please forward this message to someone you recommend, and/or let me know if there is someone I should contact directly about these opportunities.

Kind regards,

Cathrine Parker, CPC
Vice President of Recruiting
So many clowns.
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  #30  
Old 06-05-2017, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Hi Allen,

I attempted to leave a message for you on your voicemail earlier today. I read your resume online and have a job opportunity that I feel would be a great fit for you.

...

Must-have*
ACAS
...experience in Property Casualty Insurance
...
So, you read my resume which clearly shows that I've been a Life actuary for my entire career and that I have an ASA yet you think this job (which REQUIRES an ACAS & experience in P&C) would be a great fit for me?

...just .

p.s. You failed at leaving that message on my voicemail.

Last edited by 1695814; 06-05-2017 at 10:52 AM..
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