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View Poll Results: Mediocre FCAS/FSA Vs. Hardworking ACAS/ASA?
Insurance, FCAS/FSA 11 23.91%
Insurance, ACAS/ASA 23 50.00%
Consulting, FCAS/FSA 8 17.39%
Consulting, ACAS/ASA 18 39.13%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:54 AM
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Maine-iac Maine-iac is offline
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If this were an internal promotion, I would probably recognize that the associate had more talent, if this was the case. Interviewing outside candidates makes it difficult to judge. Resumes are usually quite polished, and interview skills can be deceptive. So I'd be likely to view the Fellowship as a proxy for hard work and ambition.
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  #22  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Maine-iac View Post
If this were an internal promotion, I would probably recognize that the associate had more talent, if this was the case. Interviewing outside candidates makes it difficult to judge. Resumes are usually quite polished, and interview skills can be deceptive. So I'd be likely to view the Fellowship as a proxy for hard work and ambition.
Agreed that it would be really hard to tell unless you knew both of the candidates very well.
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  #23  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CowboyGuy View Post
Do you really think a hard working ACAS/ASA can't develop a skill that a mediocre FCAS/FSA can?
Depends on the skill, and whether it is something that requires more practice or more talent.

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Originally Posted by Maine-iac View Post
If this were an internal promotion, I would probably recognize that the associate had more talent, if this was the case. Interviewing outside candidates makes it difficult to judge. Resumes are usually quite polished, and interview skills can be deceptive. So I'd be likely to view the Fellowship as a proxy for hard work and ambition.
If the associate actually had more talent, I agree with Maine-iac. But we weren't told that. We were just told the associate works harder. So it depends on the role. Some roles require a lot of hours and hard work. Other roles require that you get it right the first time, quickly. Other roles require that you have a deeper understand of the issues than anyone else in the room.

The hard worker would be best for the first type. Depending on their competence, they might be best for the second type, because they would be willing to put in the over-time to get it done in fewer days. The odds are that the employee who is good for the third type of role would not find it too burdensome to pass exams. There are exceptions of course, due to individual life stories. But I would expect more of a fellow than of an associate in general.
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by nonlnear View Post
Working hard is often a crutch for mediocrity. Is the hard working A* mediocre or actually good?
actually good
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  #25  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
Depends on the skill, and whether it is something that requires more practice or more talent.


If the associate actually had more talent, I agree with Maine-iac. But we weren't told that. We were just told the associate works harder. So it depends on the role. Some roles require a lot of hours and hard work. Other roles require that you get it right the first time, quickly. Other roles require that you have a deeper understand of the issues than anyone else in the room.

The hard worker would be best for the first type. Depending on their competence, they might be best for the second type, because they would be willing to put in the over-time to get it done in fewer days. The odds are that the employee who is good for the third type of role would not find it too burdensome to pass exams. There are exceptions of course, due to individual life stories. But I would expect more of a fellow than of an associate in general.
The reason why I didn't use the word talent is because it can become subjective in this context. Someone could argue that the FSA is more talented since they passed those higher level exams. Hardworking in my question is in coherence with actually being good at something.
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CowboyGuy View Post
The reason why I didn't use the word talent is because it can become subjective in this context. Someone could argue that the FSA is more talented since they passed those higher level exams. Hardworking in my question is in coherence with actually being good at something.
I see those as separate traits. The best employee I've ever had was lazy as hell. He showed up a little later than anyone else, left a little earlier, and took two lunch breaks every day. (an hour out of the office, and an hour at his desk, with food in front of him.) He accomplished at least 50% more than my next most productive employee -- all the rest of whom worked more hours and harder than he did. He also did things that the rest of us would have found challenging to do, because he was way better at Lotus 123 Macros than the rest of us. (Yes, this was a long time ago.)

Not being an idiot, I ignored his short hours.

Anyway, different traits are valuable for different jobs, and I would make different choices depending on what else I knew about the people involved, and what the requirements were for that particular job.
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:17 PM
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Fwiw, the second-worst employee I ever had was also lazy as hell. I certainly don't think "lazy" is a good trait, it's just not always the most important trait.
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  #28  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
Fwiw, the second-worst employee I ever had was also lazy as hell. I certainly don't think "lazy" is a good trait, it's just not always the most important trait.
haha that means i have some hope.
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  #29  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:52 PM
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Imo with proper guidance and an appropriate work load, you can get someone who works hard but isn't the highest scoring person on MENSA to be very productive. At least where I am, there's plenty of work that doesn't require that much brains but really needs to get done. I'd start there.
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  #30  
Old 01-11-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
Fwiw, the second-worst employee I ever had was also lazy as hell. I certainly don't think "lazy" is a good trait, it's just not always the most important trait.
So you're absolute worst employee you ever had wasn't lazy? What made them so bad?



I love hearing stories about bad employees, because then I don't feel too bad about myself and my own foibles...
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