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  #31  
Old 01-09-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bsanders33 View Post
This change makes sense. Public restrooms are now going mostly to unisex, as it can be a very traumatic experience for some people to be forced to choose between a binary gender option. Same with an agent or an online app asking for an applicant's gender -- which is, at the very least, a flagrant micro-aggression.

I applaud this change.
not sure if this is a troll job, but that's def not true. most public restrooms are NOT unisex.
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  #32  
Old 01-09-2019, 01:44 PM
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Good grief, why does California hate (families with) teenage girls?!
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  #33  
Old 01-09-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Noonien Soong View Post
Wow, big win for the regulatory establishment, massive blow to auto insurers. Gender, particularly interacting with other variables has strong predictive value. Ouch.

Also, how's the department going to have enough time to review all of these filings? And just because file by 7/7 could have a much further into the future effective date.
its only a blow to female drivers... not insurance companies... how is it a win for regulatory establishment?
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  #34  
Old 01-09-2019, 02:04 PM
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Old news. Par for the course for Americans.
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  #35  
Old 01-09-2019, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hostess View Post
what a ridiculous response... if you are concerned about people not being able to identify themselves, you can simply as them their sex instead of gender. Sex is biological and is going to be binary (afaik).
While the number of people with non-binary sex is small, it is not zero.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters...lation_figures

Many of the babies who are born with obviously non-binary external genitalia are surgically altered soon after birth to make them look more like one sex or the other, so we don't see it a lot these days. But that surgery has become controversial, and I expect more visibly intersex kids in our schools going forward. It's fairly common for people born intersex (whether altered or not) to grow up to have non-binary gender, or to identify with the other gender from the one they look like.

Intersex conditions are common enough that the Talmud (a 2000 year-old book of Jewish law) discusses the issues extensively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters...e_and_religion
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The Talmud contains extensive discussion concerning the status of two intersex types in Jewish law; namely the androginus, which exhibits both male and female external sexual organs, and the tumtum which exhibits neither. The nature of the androgynous is a topic first expanded upon explicitly in the Mishna, where debate arises as to the individualís classification as either male or female. The Talmud discusses it primarily in two places, in Tractate Bikkurim[6] and in Tractate Yevamot.[7] One opinion in Tractate Bikkurim indicates that the androgynos has elements of the male, elements of the female, elements of both, and elements of neither.[8] The other opinion insists that the androgynos is its own sex - a category unto itself.[9] Yevamot conducts a much lengthier analysis, where a variety of different approaches are considered in light of the opinions established in Bikkurim. In these discussions, the Talmudic personalities delineate four theoretical categories into which the androgynos may fall:

The sex of the individual is unknown. They may be male or may be female, but their true identity remains in doubt.
They are their own sex, a category unto themselves completely separate from the male and female sexes.
They are both male and female, that is, they exist simultaneously as a member of both sexes.
They are considered male. Because they possess male sexual characteristics, they belong to the male sex.
Jewish Law has specific legal obligation that differ for men and women, and thus gender becomes an exceedingly important aspect of oneís identity.

When determining the legal gender of androgynos individuals, a minority of Jewish Law decisors, ďposekĒ, classify androgynos individuals as completely male. Therefore, androgynos individuals would be obligated by law in the same way as men.[10] However, the majority of Talmudic commentators and Jewish Law decisors do not assign androgynos individuals a fixed gender, and instead leave them in a status of doubtful identity.[10] Because of the androgynos personís uncertain identity, they can be classified differently in varying cases...
The Talmud also discusses people who are born appearing to be men but become women at puberty, and vice versa. In practice, every small-town rabbi was trained in how to deal with these issues, because the odds were he would run into a case or two.
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  #36  
Old 01-09-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
While the number of people with non-binary sex is small, it is not zero.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters...lation_figures

Many of the babies who are born with obviously non-binary external genitalia are surgically altered soon after birth to make them look more like one sex or the other, so we don't see it a lot these days. But that surgery has become controversial, and I expect more visibly intersex kids in our schools going forward. It's fairly common for people born intersex (whether altered or not) to grow up to have non-binary gender, or to identify with the other gender from the one they look like.

Intersex conditions are common enough that the Talmud (a 2000 year-old book of Jewish law) discusses the issues extensively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters...e_and_religion


The Talmud also discusses people who are born appearing to be men but become women at puberty, and vice versa. In practice, every small-town rabbi was trained in how to deal with these issues, because the odds were he would run into a case or two.
Well the proportion of people born intersex in the us is like 0.05%. Quite insignificant imo.... better ways to get around it than to ban the use of sex/gender
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  #37  
Old 01-09-2019, 02:26 PM
nonactuarialactuary nonactuarialactuary is offline
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Even if sex/gender has predictive power, it makes sense to prohibit it as a rating variable for the same reason that it makes sense to prohibit race as a rating variable: excluding the relatively small population of transgender folks, you generally canít control your gender. If you canít control it, you shouldnít be charged extra for it, especially for something like personal auto thatís required by law. If I recall correctly, men generally have higher loss costs than women. By prohibitive gender as a rating variable, you introduce a cross subsidy: rates go up for women, but go down for men. With that in mind, do feminist groups generally support the law change for removing gender-based discrimination, or oppose it because it results in women paying higher rates?
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  #38  
Old 01-09-2019, 02:45 PM
thelonesomewolf227 thelonesomewolf227 is offline
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Does it make sense to prohibit though?

You can't control your age, you can't control family health history. Yet those are accepted rating variables or risk factors. To play the devil's advocate, I'll even suggest that a 16 year old can't control where they live since they are considered to be a minor and live with parents.

I'd argue this is all silly stuff. Don't ban anything, but require transparency and disclosure of what factors were taken into consideration when calculating premium. Allow consumers to then make informed decisions by educating them, while allowing companies to operate freely.
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  #39  
Old 01-09-2019, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
While the number of people with non-binary sex is small, it is not zero.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters...lation_figures



Many of the babies who are born with obviously non-binary external genitalia are surgically altered soon after birth to make them look more like one sex or the other, so we don't see it a lot these days. But that surgery has become controversial, and I expect more visibly intersex kids in our schools going forward. It's fairly common for people born intersex (whether altered or not) to grow up to have non-binary gender, or to identify with the other gender from the one they look like.
I'm struggling a little with the bold, Sir. How is someone "visibly intersex" besides genitalia, and why would that be visible at school?
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  #40  
Old 01-09-2019, 03:06 PM
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I'm struggling a little with the bold, Sir. How is someone "visibly intersex" besides genitalia, and why would that be visible at school?
In the bathrooms.
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