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  #651  
Old 08-26-2018, 10:58 PM
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What's the best way to control multi-room audio? I'm buying a house, and they have speaker wire run from where the TV is to: a room in the basement, the family room and outside. There's 2 outputs at each location, so I can set up a pair of receivers in each location. What I want is to be able to control what rooms music is playing in (e.g., only play music outside, or in the family room and basement, but not outside). As far as I can tell, my current receiver wouldn't handle that, and I'm planning on keeping it hooked up to my TV anyway. Anyone have recommendations on what to use?
http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actu...69#post9373469

And maybe a couple of posts before that, but I think that is your best bet.
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  #652  
Old 08-27-2018, 12:45 AM
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Thanks, that looks exactly what I was looking for.
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  #653  
Old 09-29-2018, 04:08 PM
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The JBL Studio 590 towers are on sale for $500 each again. Happy birthday to me! Bought another pair. On AVS Forum, there are a number of people talking about the big advantage to having your surround speakers match your front left/right and center speakers. I used to wonder if "timbre matching" of one's speakers was just another audiophile obsession. But after reading more of Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction," there's actually some very interesting science to it.

For years, the makers of "room correction" software in receivers tried to equalize sound to make it a perfectly flat frequency response curve, from low end to high end, at the main listening position (wherever you locate the included microphone). That's what Audyssey XT did. And I hated the resulting sound, so I never used it.

In more recent years, audio researchers have found that the human brain seems to do a shockingly good job of "deciphering the room" that speakers are placed in. While listeners have consistently shown a preference for speakers with a flat on-axis frequency response when measured in an anechoic chamber, the same cannot be said for speakers that have been equalized to achieve a flat frequency response in a normal room. It's as if the human brain can "hear through the room" to what the speakers sound like at the source, rather than the flat response recorded by a microphone. How weird/fascinating is that?

Actually, the above rule is not universal. It still does make sense to equalize the low end of the spectrum, up to what is called the "transition frequency" of a given room (that has to do with resonances that result from the dimensions of said room.) But above that frequency, adjustments through equalization should be more minimally applied.

It appears the makers of Audyssey used this knowledge in their development of XT32. The graph below (spoilers for size) comes from AVS Forum, where somebody ran XT and XT32 in the same room. The graph shows how much each algorithm equalized the signal. The older XT algorithm makes a ton of adjustments up and down in the high end of the spectrum, and more modest adjustments at the low end. The newer XT algorithm makes far more adjustments at the low end, while making fewer and less extreme adjustments at the high end, very much in line with Toole's recommendations.

Spoiler:


So, what does this have to do with my speaker purchase? Well, all of the above suggests that speakers can't be equalized to sound the same. So, getting identical speakers should result in a more consistent experience as sound pans around the room when listening to surround sound in a movie.

The great thing about buying straight from JBL: you enjoy both free shipping and free returns. So if getting these as my surrounds doesn't prove to be worth it, I'm not out a penny.

I'll report back after they arrive and I've had time to set them up and experiment.

Last edited by Egghead; 09-29-2018 at 11:32 PM..
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  #654  
Old 10-01-2018, 02:11 PM
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Lost track of this thread. Those curves are fascinating, I'm kind of shocked how much Audyssey was trying to do. High frequency sound has very short wavelengths, so room placement and reflections cause the response to swing pretty wildly. Looks like Audyssey was going nuts trying to flatten that.

Problem is, it's only flat *exactly* where you put the mic when you calibrate the thing. If you move a half-inch to the left, things will look very different above 5k or whatever.

So I've never been a fan of making such huge corrections in 50Hz increments, or whatever their partition is. Because the 'fixes' are actually making things worse in practice.

This is why horns are appealing, by controlling directivity you get a lot less room interaction.
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  #655  
Old 10-01-2018, 02:28 PM
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Also, I swapped out the Maggies. Stumbled upon some NHT Evolution T5 - mid-size towers with powered 12" subs, dual 5" woofers, a 3" mid, and a 1" titanium tweeter. Just got them plugged in last night, initial impressions are very positive.

And I picked up an old Carver subwoofer, a Knight Shadow 10". It seems that he left Sunfire in ~2002 and bought back the Carver name, and this sub came out of that. It looks like a Sunfire True Sub and shares some features, but has less power (500w) and is sealed (iirc all of the True Subs had passive radiators). It's really nice and tight, and plays to the low 20s. The driver has a huge surround, but with the grill on it looks like a toy - it's an 11" cube. At the size, it makes a lot of SPL.
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  #656  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:47 PM
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Lost track of this thread. Those curves are fascinating, I'm kind of shocked how much Audyssey was trying to do. High frequency sound has very short wavelengths, so room placement and reflections cause the response to swing pretty wildly. Looks like Audyssey was going nuts trying to flatten that.

Problem is, it's only flat *exactly* where you put the mic when you calibrate the thing. If you move a half-inch to the left, things will look very different above 5k or whatever.

So I've never been a fan of making such huge corrections in 50Hz increments, or whatever their partition is. Because the 'fixes' are actually making things worse in practice.

This is why horns are appealing, by controlling directivity you get a lot less room interaction.
Right, the XT version of Audyssey was seriously over-correcting. But the newer XT32 does not. There is a significant difference between the two. XT was so bad I never used it. XT32 is an actual improvement from simply using DIRECT mode.
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  #657  
Old 10-01-2018, 07:18 PM
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Right, the XT version of Audyssey was seriously over-correcting. But the newer XT32 does not. There is a significant difference between the two. XT was so bad I never used it. XT32 is an actual improvement from simply using DIRECT mode.
Oh, and look at the low end. XT32 is getting more aggressive on equalizing the bass. Those wavelengths are long, so you can EQ more easily. And the room dimensions dominate the response.

So it's doing less up top where it's hared to EQ, and more down low. The bass should sound a lot flatter with XT32.
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  #658  
Old 10-02-2018, 12:18 AM
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Oh, and look at the low end. XT32 is getting more aggressive on equalizing the bass. Those wavelengths are long, so you can EQ more easily. And the room dimensions dominate the response.

So it's doing less up top where it's hared to EQ, and more down low. The bass should sound a lot flatter with XT32.
Yep, and it does ... at the main listening position. Unfortunately, I get very uneven bass in most any other position in the room. But that makes sense, because I only have one subwoofer. So XT32 can only address the peaks and nulls at that one position. Hopefully, when I get a second subwoofer, that should help a good bit.
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  #659  
Old 10-02-2018, 12:30 AM
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Yep, and it does ... at the main listening position. Unfortunately, I get very uneven bass in most any other position in the room. But that makes sense, because I only have one subwoofer. So XT32 can only address the peaks and nulls at that one position. Hopefully, when I get a second subwoofer, that should help a good bit.
Yes! Adding that second sub will really flatten things out all across the room.
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  #660  
Old 10-03-2018, 12:41 PM
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With my surround towers on the way, I splurged on a Super Audio CD (SACD), a 5.1 remaster of Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms" album.

Hate it.

Have you ever played around with the "fake surround" modes on your receiver? It was like that. Strange, echo-y quality. Every now and then, they assigned a certain instrument to a certain speaker, and that was kind of cool, especially if it was an instrument that kind of got lost on the original. But it didn't make up for the massively excessive reverb.

Yes, my receiver is set up for the correct distances of my speakers, so that's not it. In fact, I played the original on my system in "All Channel Stereo" mode, and it sounded far better than the 5.1 SACD.

The SACD market seems to have died off, much to the chagrin of that niche market's customers. But if this disc is representative of that format, then I say good riddance. I have heard, though, that the 5.1 version of "Dark Side of the Moon" is really good. But that disc seems to be very hard to come by.
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