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  #41  
Old 09-08-2009, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by exactuary View Post

You have to believe that 19 Ex-Prez's were out to get him. That's two decades of the most senior volunteers (your actuarial brethren) at the AAA.
You have to believe no such thing. The ex-presidents signed a letter which did not recommend or even mention removing BS as PE.
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  #42  
Old 09-08-2009, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Interesting Post View Post
One can win a battle but lose the war.

It appears that Bruce Hartman is willing to burn the AAA if he cannot be remove the president onethis year. That seems to be small minded thinking. Which is why I posed the question to Bruce am waiting for an answer from Hartman. If he chooses not to answer it, fine. But I, and many others, would like to know why he is choosing this course of action. Because it looks like Captain Ahab is off hunting Moby Dick.
Perhaps one might also have phrased the question as noted above. That seems to also fit the situation.
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  #43  
Old 09-08-2009, 10:23 AM
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Perhaps one might also have phrased the question as noted above. That seems to also fit the situation.
Tom,

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  #44  
Old 09-08-2009, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tbakos View Post
Perhaps one might also have phrased the question as noted above. That seems to also fit the situation.
Eh...I'm not sure I have a problem with what Hartman did here. I'm starting to lean towards his letter not really being blackmail. You could read the email either way IMO, but I think he was trying to solve the problem quietly. He felt strongly about the issue and was letting Bruce know that if he didn't voluntarily resign, he was going to have to take matters further, which would probably require the release of information that Bruce wouldn't want public.

I do have a problem with what the AAA Board member did at that meeting to oust Bruce.
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  #45  
Old 09-08-2009, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tbakos View Post
Perhaps one might also have phrased the question as noted above. That seems to also fit the situation.
If you pose questions to Hartman on the AO, he may never see them.
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  #46  
Old 09-08-2009, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mlschop View Post
This is my exact feelings on the situation.

If I were on AAA board, would I want Bruce to step down voluntarily? Maybe. Regardless of what stance Bruce or SOA has on the issue, the fact that Sanford was awarded something makes it seem that the court felt she was defamed. I'm not sure that would make my organization look good - and I understand the desire to want Bruce to resign. The AAA just did not do it in the appropriate way, and now has to pay for that.


I don't think they thought Bruce would go to these lengths to keep his spot. If I could pick, I'd rank the options as: 1) Bruce agrees to step down, 2) Bruce declines to step down and that is that, 3) this.

I am interested in following the story though, this is a lot of controversy for a group of actuaries. I just hope the professional damage isn't too great.
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  #47  
Old 09-08-2009, 10:38 AM
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HOWEVER... after reading the court transcripts it definitely appears that the board basically threw away the rule book (bylaws and IL law) in order to remove him. The process that was taken, whether justified or not, was unfair and against the law. It is that process that I take issue with. In my opinion the ends don't always justify the means and the board does not have the right to throw out the rule book just to get the end result they so desire. If Bruce was really that unfit, they should have had no problem in removing in a way that was fair and followed the letter of the law.
You have understood exactly the litigation and the real worry that Academy members should have. It might be fun to discuss history and why the Academy Board acted but the deeper questions are:
If they had the support to remove Schobel as President-Elect and director, why didn't they do it according to the Bylaws? And, now that their error has been pointed out, why not just do it the right way? Wouldn't that be the easiest way for them to solve this problem?
The incredible incompetence displayed by the Academy Board in the matter of following its own Bylaws is not helpful to the image of the organization. Does it not appear that the Keystone Cops are back?

Is there anyone who can defend that?
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  #48  
Old 09-08-2009, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ishamael View Post
Obviously I don't speak for Bruce but IMO there is a matter of principle involved.

If a criminal record has been expunged, I am sure the esteemed judge who made the decision had a very good reason for doing so. In my books it never happened, period.

Digging up a 30 year old expunged issue to bandy in front of a soon to be president is just as dirty as politicians digging up ancient history to look for dirt to fling on their opponents during the political campaigns.
An interesting question that no one seems to be asking is of what relevance would an expunged assault charge would have on anything. The only thing I could think of is if there was a related incident which would lead to some kind of pathology. IANAL and I seriously doubt there was anything since if there were, it would be apparent to me, there would be criminal charges against Bruce. Just thinking aloud here.
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  #49  
Old 09-08-2009, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mlschop View Post
Eh...I'm not sure I have a problem with what Hartman did here. I'm starting to lean towards his letter not really being blackmail. You could read the email either way IMO, but I think he was trying to solve the problem quietly. He felt strongly about the issue and was letting Bruce know that if he didn't voluntarily resign, he was going to have to take matters further, which would probably require the release of information that Bruce wouldn't want public.

I do have a problem with what the AAA Board member did at that meeting to oust Bruce.
I have a small problem with a group who no longer hold AAA positions (some of whom aren't even MAAA members) meddling
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  #50  
Old 09-08-2009, 11:09 AM
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This happened on 8/6. I (and many other AAA members I work with) are finding out about it on 9/8. Was this discussed on the AO prior to yesterday? Obviously the AAA has made no effort to communicate to its members, many of whom will probably soon be former members.
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