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  #21  
Old 06-07-2018, 02:56 PM
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Vorian Atreides Vorian Atreides is online now
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Originally Posted by act_123 View Post
he way they are releasing the results with just a PASS isn't transparent.
What needs to be "transparent" about passing scores?
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  #22  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:17 PM
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Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't think perpetuating those "over-study" ideas are appropriate. I get it, you only need a 6 to pass, but knowing the material better isn't wasting your time when it potentially makes you better at your job. For example, I'd wager someone scoring in the 95th percentile will be more likely able to explain why or why not the Mango-Allen Claim Staffing technique for estimating ULAE is appropriate versus someone scoring a 6, should that type of situation come up in their career. I get it, unlikely, but don't actuaries account for unlikely situations?

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  #23  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by act_123 View Post
Just because CAS didn't do it prior doesn't mean that was acceptable.

I think the CAS should produce scores and say which test the score is from. There is no reason to hide it. The way they are releasing the results with just a PASS isn't transparent.
I think you will just have to write this entire testing cycle off as anomalous, I'm afraid. While you may argue that the way in which they are releasing the exams is not transparent, I believe they are being quite transparent in their motives for releasing the exam results in the way they are. They are tending toward efficiency considering they have two complete sets of exams for a "record number of registrants." So, they have a shortened period of time in which to grade and report on upwards of 2,000 exams. This with a volunteer force of graders.

No perfect solution. So stop expecting to get one.
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  #24  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleBrat View Post
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I don't mind if the CAS doesn't release the scores to help make the volunteers' work easier, but they shouldn't come up with some false pretext for it. And it sort of feels like it might be just that.
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  #25  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by x_chuck_x View Post
That seems to assume there is one person grading every problem on a single candidate's exam. That has not been the case in the past. Each question is graded by 2 graders. So, they would each get 1,000 copies of question 1 and grade it. Then they would compare the scores on question 1 for each. Having to keep a tally of each candidate's score would be more time consuming than the time it would potentially save.
I was more thinking 15 questions would be graded, those test scores would be combine, anyone who has a passing mark wont be graded any further. They then send out 5 more questions, and repeat till completion. Although this way would be difficult from a management perspective, you could remove 1000s of questions from being graded. Then anyone close to a pass mark would have their exam fully graded and anyone who did not pass exams would be fully graded.
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  #26  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by x_chuck_x View Post
I think you will just have to write this entire testing cycle off as anomalous, I'm afraid. While you may argue that the way in which they are releasing the exams is not transparent, I believe they are being quite transparent in their motives for releasing the exam results in the way they are. They are tending toward efficiency considering they have two complete sets of exams for a "record number of registrants." So, they have a shortened period of time in which to grade and report on upwards of 2,000 exams. This with a volunteer force of graders.

No perfect solution. So stop expecting to get one.
I think it'd be silly to not grade all the tests at some point given the amount of information about How TBE went that is contained in those exams. If they truly are thinking of implementing TBE for other exams in the fall, these are the only tests that will give an understanding of what to adjust for. Like someone else said, you skew those results by not including those who already passed test 1.

I would prefer to be given a score solely because it measures my own understanding of both the material and how efficient my study methods are. Do I need to study less, more, similar amounts? As well, competition is a huge part of the exam process imo. I think if they do grade them all at some point, id much rather be given my score at a later date and be told pass or fail during July 2nd rather than never get my score and just be told pass/fail.
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  #27  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by x_chuck_x View Post
I think you will just have to write this entire testing cycle off as anomalous, I'm afraid. While you may argue that the way in which they are releasing the exams is not transparent, I believe they are being quite transparent in their motives for releasing the exam results in the way they are. They are tending toward efficiency considering they have two complete sets of exams for a "record number of registrants." So, they have a shortened period of time in which to grade and report on upwards of 2,000 exams. This with a volunteer force of graders.

No perfect solution. So stop expecting to get one.
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  #28  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Swanson_Ron View Post
I would prefer to be given a score solely because it measures my own understanding of both the material and how efficient my study methods are. Do I need to study less, more, similar amounts? As well, competition is a huge part of the exam process imo. I think if they do grade them all at some point, id much rather be given my score at a later date and be told pass or fail during July 2nd rather than never get my score and just be told pass/fail.
I agree, though I understand this is all done by volunteers etc etc etc so I'm just happy they're releasing them as early as they are when I was expecting a couple weeks later than it appears
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  #29  
Old 06-07-2018, 04:02 PM
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Candidates who passed either the first exam or the make-up exam will receive a PASS for Exam 5. They will not be informed as to which exam(s) they passed. To allow our graders to focus their time where it could have the most benefit, we decided the make-up exam would not be graded for candidates who passed the first exam. In order to avoid potential disparity across passing candidates, we will not provide the numerical score of 6 to 10 for this sitting.
The interesting part of this is that theyíre not grading all tests. If 1000 people take both the original test and the makeup, and 400 pass the original, this means only grading the 600 failing candidates for the retest. Thereís some sense in that: it definitely saves time/effort. That said, if youíre only grading the people that failed the original test, the retest will have a weaker candidate pool because the stronger candidates arenít having their tests graded at all. Will this mess with the curve? Is it a moot point because the MQC standard is theoretically set in stone before the test and not adjusted based on actual candidate performance?

Iím skeptical of the MQC idea to begin with. The MQC standard theoretically means a sitting could have a near 100% pass rate if the CAS inadvertently gave an easier test than expected, or a near 0% pass rate if the CAS gave a harder test than expected. Iíd like to imagine the CAS would curve something like that if the raw results were too far off from the typical ~40% pass rate, but with a candidate pool biased weak by design, how would such a curve apply?
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  #30  
Old 06-07-2018, 04:07 PM
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The interesting part of this is that they’re not grading all tests. If 1000 people take both the original test and the makeup, and 400 pass the original, this means only grading the 600 failing candidates for the retest. There’s some sense in that: it definitely saves time/effort. That said, if you’re only grading the people that failed the original test, the retest will have a weaker candidate pool because the stronger candidates aren’t having their tests graded at all. Will this mess with the curve? Is it a moot point because the MQC standard is theoretically set in stone before the test and not adjusted based on actual candidate performance?

I’m skeptical of the MQC idea to begin with. The MQC standard theoretically means a sitting could have a near 100% pass rate if the CAS inadvertently gave an easier test than expected, or a near 0% pass rate if the CAS gave a harder test than expected. I’d like to imagine the CAS would curve something like that if the raw results were too far off from the typical ~40% pass rate, but with a candidate pool biased weak by design, how would such a curve apply?
I looked into the last few years of results when I was first studying and found the pass mark hardly varies at all, while the passing % varies greatly (over 15-20% swings). I'd bet they basically just say 70% pass mark no matter what, if they continue with what they've done in recent history.
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