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  #51  
Old 10-28-2011, 05:46 PM
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New email from the SOA about a task force.
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  #52  
Old 10-28-2011, 05:51 PM
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Wow - things certainly can get fast-tracked when they really want to - from an email this afternoon (ninja'd)...

Quote:
SOA Board approves formation of Task Force to explore options for possible consolidation of U.S. actuarial associations
I have an open mind about whether this is important to try, a less open mind about whether it is possible, and a conviction that it would require radical restructuring and change in attitude on the SOA's part if they hope to convince the other orgs.

But my questions will be...

Why was this not mentioned by Brad when running so that the membership could consider this when voting? Was it mentioned by any other P-E or board candidate? It is (it seems) the very first initiative and yet it was not important enough to mention prior to being elected?

Where is the task force on re-visiting the process of governance (elections, nominations, adherance to bylaws, etc)? I think that should be a pre-requisite to any consideration of consolidation. Why does consideration of something as basic as that take so long while this radical change is fast-tracked?

Is the SOA board willing to consider radical restructuring of the SOA, (breaking it up, dissolving it into a new org, etc)? Because it appears it will be difficult in any case, but it certainly appears to not be happening if they think the other orgs are just going to be merged into the SOA.

Last edited by Chuck; 10-28-2011 at 05:56 PM..
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  #53  
Old 10-28-2011, 05:52 PM
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But my questions will be...

Why was this not mentioned by Brad when running so that the membership could consider this when voting?
Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.
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  #54  
Old 10-28-2011, 06:15 PM
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judging by the comments under the Soa blog post, some people knew.

http://blog.soa.org/2011/10/19/uniti...ial-profession
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  #55  
Old 10-28-2011, 06:17 PM
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Having the seperate training groups in the CAS and SOA promotes a serious weakness for the profession when it comes to our competition in other financial professionals.
Who said that we're in competition with other financial professionals? I'm P&C insurance professional that's a member of the CAS. I blend my mathematical skills with my knowledge of the insurance products that the company sells to help the company achieve its goals.

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Actuaries already start with a black mark as many business people do not see actuarial as a business discipline (a consequence of most colleges housing their actuarial training in Math rather than the Business School).
Business people in insurance companies know what actuaries do and the value that they bring to the company. Business people outside of the insurance industry that know what an actuary is think of them as insurance numbers guys, because that's what we are.

Actuarial departments belong in business schools because the discipline lacks rigor and is more of a social science like economics and finance than a hard science like mathematics. It also belongs in the business school because actuaries need to know subjects like accounting, economics, and finance that are housed in the business school.

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Originally Posted by Earthx View Post
Having 2 sets of training groups implies that each set of actuaries is a one-trick pony and can never really be expected lead a company as a whole.
Company leaders come from different areas within the company. I know of CEO's that have come from claims, underwriting, accounting, and actuarial. Are the claims people that are CEO's also one-trick ponies? In addition to the skills from their area of expertise, they've also got some other skills that can be difficult, but not impossible, to acquire. You're right that the P&C and Life actuaries are experts in life and P&C but that's why my company doesn't ask me to work on life stuff. The life actuaries work on life stuff and the P&C actuaries work on P&C stuff.

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At some point, the SOA and CAS need to combine so that business leaders see "an actuary is an actuary" like they do "a CPA is a CPA" and "a CFA is a CFA" or we will be marginalized and left behind.

The AAA is another animal given that it is focused on U.S. items only.
That's only if you believe that, for example, insurance companies won't need people that specialize in P&C insurance and can fill the roles filled now by actuaries with employees with general business skills. I don't see that happening. I see roles that traditionally have been filled by P&C actuaries filled by statisticians but that's an issue with the training of P&C actuaries, and shows that insurance companies want more specialized skills in some areas, not more generalized skills.
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  #56  
Old 10-28-2011, 06:33 PM
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Is it as easy for an SOA member to get on a task force or to get on the P-E ballot?
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  #57  
Old 10-28-2011, 06:44 PM
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Who's on the task force?

Just hoping this sucks up a lot of their time.
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  #58  
Old 10-28-2011, 06:52 PM
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Serious question: why does this board think that the CAS is better than the SOA? I never really ranked one over the other.
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  #59  
Old 10-28-2011, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSBurke View Post
Who said that we're in competition with other financial professionals? I'm P&C insurance professional that's a member of the CAS. I blend my mathematical skills with my knowledge of the insurance products that the company sells to help the company achieve its goals.
When it comes to becoming an executive who helps direct the future of you company, these are people who are your competition.

Quote:
Business people in insurance companies know what actuaries do and the value that they bring to the company. Business people outside of the insurance industry that know what an actuary is think of them as insurance numbers guys, because that's what we are.

Company leaders come from different areas within the company. I know of CEO's that have come from claims, underwriting, accounting, and actuarial. Are the claims people that are CEO's also one-trick ponies? In addition to the skills from their area of expertise, they've also got some other skills that can be difficult, but not impossible, to acquire. You're right that the P&C and Life actuaries are experts in life and P&C but that's why my company doesn't ask me to work on life stuff. The life actuaries work on life stuff and the P&C actuaries work on P&C stuff.
I can only go by my experience, which is many of those business people have trouble seeing actuaries as bringing value beyond the pigeon-holded roles and do not value them as business leaders. Whereas claims, underwriting, accounting can work on all products, actuaries are stuck on one side or the other, which limits them when it comes to high executive roles covering both sides of the industry

Quote:
That's only if you believe that, for example, insurance companies won't need people that specialize in P&C insurance and can fill the roles filled now by actuaries with employees with general business skills. I don't see that happening. I see roles that traditionally have been filled by P&C actuaries filled by statisticians but that's an issue with the training of P&C actuaries, and shows that insurance companies want more specialized skills in some areas, not more generalized skills.
No, I'm saying the limit is that there is no way for Health actuaries to take on P&C roles (and vice versa), even though the skills are clearly transferrable. So, whereas CFAs can work with any asset and CPAs can work with any product and it's set of accounts, execs see that actuaries are not "good enough" to cross those lines, and so have trouble proving their can be of value anywhere in the organization.
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  #60  
Old 10-28-2011, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Earthx View Post
No, I'm saying the limit is that there is no way for Health actuaries to take on P&C roles (and vice versa), even though the skills are clearly transferrable. So, whereas CFAs can work with any asset and CPAs can work with any product and it's set of accounts, execs see that actuaries are not "good enough" to cross those lines, and so have trouble proving their can be of value anywhere in the organization.
This is nonsense.
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