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  #11  
Old 08-22-2018, 01:28 PM
mheasley mheasley is offline
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Originally Posted by campbell View Post
It's more that I find it a waste of resources on the part of the SOA, and causing enmity between actuarial organizations that didn't have to exist.

For info on that last bit:
https://www.slideshare.net/meepbobee...d-aaa-timeline
Very very interesting. I had no idea it was so political.

It seems to me that actuaries would benefit from the merging of these organizations. The SOA is right that it would provide greater flexibility to practice multiples lines of insurance. Besides, why should an actuary have to pay dues to two organizations? The AAA fees are rediculously expensive at $635.
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  #12  
Old 08-22-2018, 01:39 PM
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Colymbosathon ecplecticos Colymbosathon ecplecticos is offline
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The problem that I see with the CAS's offering is that it pigeonhole's you into P&C work. With the SOA, all tracks lead to the same outcome. Once you have an FSA, nobody cares how you got it. They only care about your experience. And the FSA designation is well regarded in all lines of insurance, except P&C. This is great if you expect to practice in multiple lines of insurance or change career paths into another line of insurance.
P&C actuaries deal with significantly different issues than life actuaries. Health actuaries on the other hand, are more like P&C than life. The CAS has not set up a health tract; why is that? Probably because a health tract already exists, albeit offered by another society. That is why I told the utility story, because utilities are natural monopolies as are professional societies.

Notice that podiatrists and neurosurgeons are both doctors, but each has their own (specialist) professional society.

I believe that in another thread you suggested that your employer wanted you to do P&C work and to get your FSA. Is it possible that "FSA" was meant to be "fellowship"?

One final comment from the other thread: 0.7*0.7 is about 0.5, so if you assume independence of the two outcomes (a bad assumption, but still) ….
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  #13  
Old 08-22-2018, 02:26 PM
|B|rad |B|rad is offline
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do you believe that there is something that prevents an FSA with no CAS affiliation from working as a P&C actuary?
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  #14  
Old 08-22-2018, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mheasley View Post
Very very interesting. I had no idea it was so political.

It seems to me that actuaries would benefit from the merging of these organizations. The SOA is right that it would provide greater flexibility to practice multiples lines of insurance. Besides, why should an actuary have to pay dues to two organizations? The AAA fees are rediculously expensive at $635.
I agree in theory but in practice it seems untenable.
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  #15  
Old 08-22-2018, 02:47 PM
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do you believe that there is something that prevents an FSA with no CAS affiliation from working as a P&C actuary?
Looking over the longer term, there is nothing that prevents an FSA from changing sides, but in the US at least, Qualification Standards prescribe a period of time in which an actuary changing practice areas must work under an already-qualified actuary before they can meet the standards.

Getting that supervision could be challenging.
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  #16  
Old 08-22-2018, 03:18 PM
mheasley mheasley is offline
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Looking over the longer term, there is nothing that prevents an FSA from changing sides, but in the US at least, Qualification Standards prescribe a period of time in which an actuary changing practice areas must work under an already-qualified actuary before they can meet the standards.

Getting that supervision could be challenging.
True. And correct me if I'm wrong about this... but the only actuaries that need to be concerned about this are those that putting there names on actuarial opinions. And from my experience there are only a few actuaries that need to be able to do that in any given organization. So for most of us that wouldn't be a problem.
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  #17  
Old 08-22-2018, 03:21 PM
mheasley mheasley is offline
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Originally Posted by Colymbosathon ecplecticos View Post
I believe that in another thread you suggested that your employer wanted you to do P&C work and to get your FSA. Is it possible that "FSA" was meant to be "fellowship"?
No, I meant what I said. I am in a unique position that will require work in multiple lines of insurance; some P&C, Health, and maybe even life. I won't be issuing actuarial opinions but my employer wants me to have an FSA since it is broadly acceptable in multiple lines of insurance.

Last edited by mheasley; 08-22-2018 at 03:47 PM..
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  #18  
Old 08-22-2018, 03:28 PM
mheasley mheasley is offline
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Originally Posted by Colymbosathon ecplecticos View Post
P&C actuaries deal with significantly different issues than life actuaries. Health actuaries on the other hand, are more like P&C than life. The CAS has not set up a health tract; why is that? Probably because a health tract already exists, albeit offered by another society. That is why I told the utility story, because utilities are natural monopolies as are professional societies.
I have worked for a health insurance company as a health actuary and at a P&C company as a P&C actuary. Very very different types of work. In health I did risk-sharing contracts, forecasting, 3R stuff and all sorts of ad hoc stuff. In P&C I did pricing, which included rate indications and filings. My experience has shown me that health actuaries have their hands in lots and lots of different things while P&C actuaries stick to pricing and reserving. Maybe that is not more generally true but that is certainly true at the companies I worked for. Part of that may be due to the narrow focus of the CAS credentialling. Granted, they know that narrow focus very well.

Last edited by mheasley; 08-22-2018 at 03:35 PM..
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  #19  
Old 08-22-2018, 03:40 PM
mheasley mheasley is offline
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Why does the SOA bother having different tracks at all?
Maybe that was a bit of an overstatement but I think most of us would agree that the FSA track you take has a shelf life. The track you take certainly prepares you better for a specific type of work. However, after a little while, clients/employers will only care about your experience, not the track you took to get your FSA.
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  #20  
Old 08-22-2018, 03:48 PM
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True. And correct me if I'm wrong about this... but the only actuaries that need to be concerned about this are those that putting there names on actuarial opinions.
No. The USQS uses the broad definition of "Statement of Actuarial Opinion":

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Originally Posted by USQS
For purposes of the Qualification Standards, a “Statement of Actuarial Opinion” (SAO) is an opinion expressed by an actuary in the course of performing Actuarial Services and intended by that actuary to be relied upon by the person or organization to which the opinion is addressed. "Actuarial Services” are defined in the Code of Professional Conduct as “Professional services provided to a Principal (client or employer) by an individual acting in the capacity of an actuary. Such services include the rendering of advice, recommendations, findings, or opinions based upon actuarial considerations.”
There's been quite a bit of armchair lawyering over the definitions of "SAO", "practice area", and "actuarial services". But I would suggest, at least in a company environment, this should be taken to mean that if you've changed practice areas, your boss or your grandboss needs to be a qualified actuary checking up on your work before it goes "out".
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