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  #61  
Old 12-06-2011, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Eimon Gnome View Post
So your position is: let the younger generation bear the burden. And that differs from SS now in what way?
The difference is it that it's your own younger generation that's helping you, as opposed to somebody else's.

When it's somebody else's, you get the free rider effect in that you have people who did not contribute a next generation (or enough of one) to keep the demographic pyramid schemes going strong.
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  #62  
Old 12-06-2011, 08:04 AM
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What happened to the following principles?

1. Live within your means
2. Take responsibility for your own actions
3. Face the music instead of passing the buck
4. You get out what you put in

I guess these archaic philosophies should be ignored in favor of more "modern" ideas?
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  #63  
Old 12-06-2011, 08:53 AM
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Someday, DanielSong, you will learn that what you want and what you get are not always the same thing.

Not everybody is as lucky as you are. Perhaps one day you will find out how it feels.
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  #64  
Old 12-06-2011, 09:45 AM
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PBGC took over my GM pension, so I'll start getting a pittance from them around age 65, and with the real inflation rate we're really seeing, that pension will probably get me one or 2 happy meals per month.
So $56,000 per year is a pittance that is going to only purchase you 1 or 3 happy meals per month? If you are getting less that the PBGC maximum at age 65, then what exactly does the PBGC takign over the pension plan have to do with it?
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  #65  
Old 12-06-2011, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Salzmann View Post
I wish. First of all, the people who opt out will include a large number of people who can do better saving the money on their own because of SS's progressive benefit structure (lower-income earners get a higher % of average wages in their benefits). Thus, the transfer of $$ from the high earners to the low earners is impossible. There will also be a lareg segment who won't or cannot save but will opt out anyway. They'll reach old age with no money and wonder why "the government" doesn't help them and, because it's politically unpalatable (and not nice) to let masses of needy people die, funds will be found to support them. SS, at least, is some forced savings.

It occurred to me that you may have been facetious and you know all this. But believe me, I wish I could opt out! Getting all my contributions (and employers' contributions) back starting with the withholdings from the week I delivered telephone books when I was 17 would be nice, too.
The Opt Out I have proposed (multiple times!) would not give you anything back, and would require you to pay in for a certain # of quarters before being allowed to exercise your option. The exercise window would not be open indefinitely, but would close at some time (maybe, 10 years?) before normal retirement age so that people would not be foolish with their own last few years of income.

That, combined with the elimination of the upper limit on contributions (but keep the limit on benefit accrual, thus making the system more progressive), could eliminate the "problem". How much "solve" happens is dependent on how many people can and do opt out.
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  #66  
Old 12-06-2011, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
So $56,000 per year is a pittance that is going to only purchase you 1 or 3 happy meals per month? If you are getting less that the PBGC maximum at age 65, then what exactly does the PBGC takign over the pension plan have to do with it?
By the time I'm 65, that's exactly how much $56,000 will buy...
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  #67  
Old 12-06-2011, 03:07 PM
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Social Security is doomed. Get over it.
I am not afraid of SS going away.


I am afraid of SS staying around.
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  #68  
Old 12-06-2011, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Eimon Gnome View Post
So your position is: let the younger generation bear the burden. And that differs from SS now in what way?
What limabean said above. My parents can lose all their savings and it won't be a problem, because they put in the work and effort to raise children who are able and willing to support them. I also get free babysitters.
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  #69  
Old 12-06-2011, 06:09 PM
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What limabean said above. My parents can lose all their savings and it won't be a problem, because they put in the work and effort to raise children who are able and willing to support them. I also get free babysitters.
Just pointing out that this is the same financial structure as SS.
The only difference is an emotional one on your (and Lima's) part. Cash wise - no substantial difference.

out of curiosity, do in-laws count? I mean, if its your sister's husband's mother that needs cash, are you going to send in money? How about step parents? Are they in or out?
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  #70  
Old 12-06-2011, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Eimon Gnome View Post
Just pointing out that this is the same financial structure as SS.
The only difference is an emotional one on your (and Lima's) part. Cash wise - no substantial difference.

out of curiosity, do in-laws count? I mean, if its your sister's husband's mother that needs cash, are you going to send in money? How about step parents? Are they in or out?
At the least, it's much more efficient due to the removal of the middleman (government) and politicians messing around with it. More importantly though, it has a broader effect on society (at least my family) by increasing the importance of creating stable families who have a greater incentive to raise productive kids.

Personally, in-laws count as family, and if the closer members of their network are unable to support them, then I don't have a problem stepping in. There are no divorces in my extended family, but I can imagine scenarios where I would and wouldn't provide support to step parents. I use the word support because it's not about the money, it's about maintaining and fostering the network which I am part of.
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