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  #61  
Old 03-01-2018, 04:56 PM
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Mike Preston Mike Preston is offline
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It has been my experience that those who are not in favor of sunshine are those that are less than confident in their ability to rationally, professionally and intelligently discuss things. Perhaps they want the ability to bully others without their tactics being exposed. Perhaps they are shy and just don't want their lack of participation in discussion to be public.

I submit that those who lack the ability to conduct themselves rationally, professionally and intelligently are misplaced if they are in leadership roles.

I spent four years on the ASB Pension Committee and I would like to think I served with those who were representative of Academy members: rational, professional and intelligent. I can't think of a discussion that wouldn't have stood up to a wider audience.
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  #62  
Old 03-01-2018, 07:02 PM
tommie frazier tommie frazier is offline
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I have seen settings where sunshine is required. It can inhibit what you say. If you are prone to thinking out loud or proposing alternatives, there can be alarmists in the audience who run with what you say and that it is detrimental to progress/PR. So you don't say those things. So the effort to come up with the required wording that won't set off such a storm is sometimes more than the time allowed for discussion.

that said, I have no problem with more sunshine.
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  #63  
Old 03-01-2018, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommie frazier View Post
I have seen settings where sunshine is required. It can inhibit what you say. If you are prone to thinking out loud or proposing alternatives, there can be alarmists in the audience who run with what you say and that it is detrimental to progress/PR. So you don't say those things. So the effort to come up with the required wording that won't set off such a storm is sometimes more than the time allowed for discussion.

that said, I have no problem with more sunshine.
Yes, despite the occasional difficulties, Sunshine is generally both helpful and healthy. I am puzzled and troubled by the new rules.
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  #64  
Old 03-01-2018, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by campbell View Post
This is the part that really made my eyebrows go up:



I'm curious what sorts of inside info are discussed at Academy board and ASB meetings.
Aren't ASOPs often based not on best practices (whatever that means) but on current practices?

I could imagine there might be uncommon, proprietary practices that someone tries to work into an ASOP to make sure they're not suddenly running afoul of the rules. The eventual ASOP language might be general enough so as not to give away the secret sauce, but the discussion to get there might have to reveal at least some of the secret herbs and spices.
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  #65  
Old 03-01-2018, 08:07 PM
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Well, I, Karen I love you
I was lying on the bench slide in the park across the street
L-a-t-e-are that week
My sticky paws were in to making straws out of big fat slurpy treats

An incredible eight foot heap
Now the funny glare to pay a gleaming tare in a staring under heat
Involved an under usual feet
And I'm not only among but I invite who I want to come
So I missed a million miles of fun
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  #66  
Old 03-02-2018, 10:51 AM
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Hydraskull Hydraskull is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcie View Post
Well, I, Karen I love you
I was lying on the bench slide in the park across the street
L-a-t-e-are that week
My sticky paws were in to making straws out of big fat slurpy treats

An incredible eight foot heap
Now the funny glare to pay a gleaming tare in a staring under heat
Involved an under usual feet
And I'm not only among but I invite who I want to come
So I missed a million miles of fun
Pretty terrible lyrics! Maybe that's why Len were a one-hit wonder.
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Retracted below.
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  #67  
Old 03-02-2018, 11:23 AM
Pension.Mathematics Pension.Mathematics is offline
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My opinion: 100% transparency and 100% democracy is sometimes associated with low efficiency.

For countries: as someone said, Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

But for AAA, "the body that represents and unites United States actuaries in all practice areas. Established in 1965, the Academy serves as the profession’s voice on public policy and professionalism issues", I think the current governance structure is fine.
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  #68  
Old 03-02-2018, 11:34 AM
KarenNsmith KarenNsmith is offline
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Pension.Mathematics - I am not sure what you are saying. Can you explain what you mean by "current governance structure"?

There is NO democracy in the ASB process and I don't think there ever will be. The ASB could receive 100 comment letters against something and 0 for it and still adopt it. Their judgment reigns supreme as to what is appropriate.

IMHO I don't think the ASB aims for efficiency. What exposure draft are we on for the modeling ASOP? 4th? and I am not sure there is agreement on the definition of model. If the ASB were aiming for efficiency, the process would be very different.

Oh, but I digress, my focus is on transparency - Under the old policy the ASB and its committees had the right to go into executive session, so there was never 100% transparency. But, it was much, much closer to 100% transparency before they adopted the new policy.
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  #69  
Old 03-02-2018, 11:59 AM
Pension.Mathematics Pension.Mathematics is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenNsmith View Post
Pension.Mathematics - I am not sure what you are saying.
i don't see a problem with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenNsmith View Post
...the American Academy of Actuaries Board of Directors voted to close all meetings of the Committee on Qualifications and closed all Actuarial Standards Board meetings unless the chair approves the observerís attendance...
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  #70  
Old 03-06-2018, 10:34 AM
actexp actexp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenNsmith View Post
Pension.Mathematics - I am not sure what you are saying. Can you explain what you mean by "current governance structure"?

There is NO democracy in the ASB process and I don't think there ever will be. The ASB could receive 100 comment letters against something and 0 for it and still adopt it. Their judgment reigns supreme as to what is appropriate.

IMHO I don't think the ASB aims for efficiency. What exposure draft are we on for the modeling ASOP? 4th? and I am not sure there is agreement on the definition of model. If the ASB were aiming for efficiency, the process would be very different.

Oh, but I digress, my focus is on transparency - Under the old policy the ASB and its committees had the right to go into executive session, so there was never 100% transparency. But, it was much, much closer to 100% transparency before they adopted the new policy.
Let's be real. ASB subcommittee essentially has to answer every comment received. If get a huge outpouring of opposition for valid reasons, it won't simply get adopted. It will get modified and another exposure draft goes out.
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