Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #31  
Old 05-29-2018, 11:01 PM
whoanonstop's Avatar
whoanonstop whoanonstop is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Studying for Spark / Scala
College: College of William and Mary
Favorite beer: Orange Juice
Posts: 5,831
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ditkaworshipper View Post
Your examples are elementary enough that I’m confident labeling you a charlatan in the health field. Health actuaries aren’t restricted to traditional work, and I can vouch that they have been working on this type of work for years. Results are mixed.
I'm cool with that. Some people will spend years upon years in the same career/field and still be labeled as such. :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathStatFin View Post
Normally the "etc.etc" gives it away...
Bet there are more than a handful of people who are currently health actuaries that couldn't have made a list that long.

-Riley
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-29-2018, 11:13 PM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 47,504
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathStatFin View Post
Look at the bright side: you won't hear the word "analytics" that often.
The company's doing just fine
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-29-2018, 11:49 PM
JohnLocke's Avatar
JohnLocke JohnLocke is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
While there are a couple of important exceptions (e.g. gaming risk scores), in general predictive analytics isn't remotely as useful in health insurance as it's made out to be.

And what's left to do can often be purchased or outsourced.
I don't know what it's "made out to be" but predictive analytics is super useful in health insurance. For regulatory and pragmatic reasons, those uses aren't always actuarial (pricing/reserving) but often enough they are. It's not a core function but a differentiator. I don't know that a regional carrier needs to have a data science department, but they should at least have consultants for when the need arises. Having no use for predictive analytics (internal or hired) is a failure of a strategy. Not one that will kill you right away, or one you can't compensate for with other strengths, but a doing nothing strategy compounded over a decade or two will leave you in the dust.
__________________
i always post when i'm in a shitty mood. if i didn't do that, i'd so rarely post. --AO Fan

Lucky for you I was raised by people with a good moral center because if that were not the case, you guys would be in a lot of trouble.
So be very, very glad people like me exist. Your future basically depends on it. --jas66kent

The stock market is going to go up significantly due to Trump Economics --jas66kent
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-30-2018, 12:25 AM
Locrian Locrian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoanonstop View Post
Given the experience of those clients and the claims of their individuals, can we use the claims of individuals from another client to more accurately gauge the value of each of these programs to them? Are we able to make detailed predictions about product offerings that don't rely on mean statistics of that client, but instead individual/claim level data?
You're practically reading my resume back to me. Are we connected on LinkedIn or something?

Quote:
Also, hospital networking decisions seem to be ripe for optimization. What I've seen in that space is super lackluster...
Okay, THIS is where people get this completely wrong. There are huge inefficiencies everywhere in US healthcare. That doesn't mean you can tap those, and even when you do, it doesn't necessarily do any good.

Never forget two important things:

1) One person's inefficiency is another's paycheck, and providers always win.

2) Reducing utilization can entirely be overwhelmed by increases in cost per service. (And if you think you're going to negotiate that down, see #1)

And finally, remember that ultimately you price in all those inefficiencies back into the premium anyways, so the value of reducing them is a lot less than is perceived.
__________________
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
The most important thing I have learned from the career forum is that the gurus in this field and keepers of supreme knowledge regarding all matters pertaining to the actuarial profession are unlettered actuarial students with < 5 years of experience.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-30-2018, 12:29 AM
Locrian Locrian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLocke View Post
I don't know that a regional carrier needs to have a data science department, but they should at least have consultants for when the need arises.
Agreed. They don't need one and can just farm it out.
__________________
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
The most important thing I have learned from the career forum is that the gurus in this field and keepers of supreme knowledge regarding all matters pertaining to the actuarial profession are unlettered actuarial students with < 5 years of experience.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-30-2018, 12:34 AM
Locrian Locrian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,735
Default

By the way, while I don't think you can beat the providers, there's a couple of major carriers that have demonstrated you can definitely beat the government, and MA is definitely a space where leveraging analytics can pay off.

Though again, I don't really know why you'd need to dedicate a group to it, unless you're pretty huge.
__________________
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
The most important thing I have learned from the career forum is that the gurus in this field and keepers of supreme knowledge regarding all matters pertaining to the actuarial profession are unlettered actuarial students with < 5 years of experience.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-30-2018, 11:05 AM
ditkaworshipper's Avatar
ditkaworshipper ditkaworshipper is online now
Official AO Grill Master
SOA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ditka's Restaurant
Studying for :lol:
Favorite beer: Yes
Posts: 24,505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoanonstop View Post
I'm cool with that. Some people will spend years upon years in the same career/field and still be labeled as such. :P



Bet there are more than a handful of people who are currently health actuaries that couldn't have made a list that long.

-Riley
You are a man with a hammer (OMG, data science is totes awesome guys), and you see every problem as a nail. I don't mind that, but cut the attitude. Nothing is more annoying than reading/listening to the Dunning Krueger effect from someone who doesn't know your field, particularly with an arrogant and dismissive tone.

The barrier in healthcare currently is not the lack of analytics to give direction, but ability to implement the analytics. Your list also includes things where analytics aren't the issue, but legal and administrative hurdles. So...stop pretending you know what you're talking about when you really have no idea?
__________________
Who would win in a fight...Mike Ditka or a hurricane? And da hurricane's name is Ditka.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-30-2018, 11:49 AM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 47,504
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ditkaworshipper View Post
The barrier in healthcare currently is not the lack of analytics to give direction, but ability to implement the analytics. Your list also includes things where analytics aren't the issue, but legal and administrative hurdles. So...stop pretending you know what you're talking about when you really have no idea?
Yeah, oftentimes the model doesn't have to be that good or complex. Administrative hurdles are a bigger killer of models than lack of sophistication. Models often require stakeholders to stop doing what they have been doing, and they will be reluctant to change, especially if their current methods are producing good but not great results. They fear operational risk, and this is where having good persuasive and sales skills are more important than modelling ability or even the ability to verbally explain complex ideas.
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-30-2018, 08:57 PM
exponentialpi's Avatar
exponentialpi exponentialpi is online now
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Po
Studying for ACA
College: Graduate of hard knocks
Favorite beer: Cold Smoke
Posts: 1,410
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ditkaworshipper View Post
You are a man with a hammer (OMG, data science is totes awesome guys), and you see every problem as a nail. I don't mind that, but cut the attitude. Nothing is more annoying than reading/listening to the Dunning Krueger effect from someone who doesn't know your field, particularly with an arrogant and dismissive tone.

The barrier in healthcare currently is not the lack of analytics to give direction, but ability to implement the analytics. Your list also includes things where analytics aren't the issue, but legal and administrative hurdles. So...stop pretending you know what you're talking about when you really have no idea?
"Who knew healthcare could be so complicated."

As for the OP, based upon the markets I have operated in, predictive analytics poses challenges given the highly volatility of the enrollment. You might have someone only in years 1, 3, and 5. If they are with someone else for years 2 and 4, it's hard to know what might influence those results with the missing data.

I actually saw a complicated case of this play out in ACA risk adjustment when some co-ops terminated mid-year with members having a special enrollment period. The risk scores didn't transfer and it made estimation challenging.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-31-2018, 07:37 PM
clarinetist clarinetist is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Studying for Rcpp, Git
Posts: 6,869
Default

I just wanted to say that HIPAA compliance as a data analyst sounds like a nightmare. Even when I was working at the largest health records company in the nation (which clearly had the data), if you are accessing even your own records through the system, that's grounds for getting fired. I just wanted to provide some context to those who might not understand how scrutinized data usage is in healthcare.
__________________
If you want to add me on LinkedIn, PM me.

Why I hate Microsoft Access.

Studying/Reading: Linear Optimization/Programming, Machine Learning and Pattern Recognition

Last edited by clarinetist; 05-31-2018 at 10:13 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.31877 seconds with 9 queries