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  #31  
Old 05-09-2017, 02:38 PM
ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe is offline
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Originally Posted by Westley View Post
Not sure what you have in terms of thresholds, but 80 applications for 6 phone interviews could be explained in terms of companies looking local or timing; if you were looking during prime hiring, that's a low response rate and supports the "saturated" argument.
I was applying during a slow time in hiring. It was during the summer, and I applied to every position available on indeed.com. I also went to individual company websites and applied to all of the the listings. I had no restriction location wise and no visa requirements. My recruiter from DW Simpson did not manage to get me even a single phone interview for the month and a half I was searching. I thought that my resume was an instant hire resume for an EL actuarial position.

Our definition of "saturated" might be different. I had a strong resume and believed that I would be able to get a job anywhere I wanted. In reality, I applied to all of the positions available in the US and was not pleased by the response rate.
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  #32  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:03 PM
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ScorchedEarthActuary ScorchedEarthActuary is offline
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I think all of the criteria that I laid out are achievable by the large majority of people that should be in the profession.
Couldn't you use this logic to say that meeting the requirements to get ANY job is easy? If we exclude all of the candidates that shouldn't be fortune 500 CEO's, the standards to become one should be relatively easy. The catch is, we'd only be looking at the elite of the elite. For everyone else the standards would be ridiculously difficult, but screw them.

I think if we're assessing how easy or difficult it is to get into the profession, we should consider it from the perspective of candidates trying to get into the profession. Of course we can narrow the candidate pool down to the strongest candidates and say it's easy for them, but that's sort of missing the point.
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  #33  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:07 PM
kyotousa kyotousa is offline
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Originally Posted by ScorchedEarthActuary View Post
Couldn't you use this logic to say that meeting the requirements to get ANY job is easy? If we exclude all of the candidates that shouldn't be fortune 500 CEO's, the standards to become one should be relatively easy. The catch is, we'd only be looking at the elite of the elite. For everyone else the standards would be ridiculously difficult, but screw them.

I think if we're assessing how easy or difficult it is to get into the profession, we should consider it from the perspective of candidates trying to get into the profession. Of course we can narrow the candidate pool down to the strongest candidates and say it's easy for them, but that's sort of missing the point.
To be a successful movie star is still quite difficult, even if you met the requirement tho.
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  #34  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:13 PM
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ScorchedEarthActuary ScorchedEarthActuary is offline
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To be a successful movie star is still quite difficult, even if you met the requirement tho.
Depends on the requirements. If you move the bar enough, you could probably limit your candidate pool to elite, we'll - connected, talented and charismatic people who love the work. Not saying that they wouldn't have to put work in, just saying that it wouldn't be a significant hardship for them
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  #35  
Old 05-09-2017, 04:01 PM
kyotousa kyotousa is offline
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Originally Posted by ScorchedEarthActuary View Post
Depends on the requirements. If you move the bar enough, you could probably limit your candidate pool to elite, we'll - connected, talented and charismatic people who love the work. Not saying that they wouldn't have to put work in, just saying that it wouldn't be a significant hardship for them
Personally, I think to be a hit movie star/singer is more like strike by lightning. You have to be qualified and lucky.

ie: Bryan Cranston and RD Jr. both were abt to retire before hitting it big.
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  #36  
Old 05-09-2017, 04:32 PM
clarinetist clarinetist is offline
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Applying for an actuarial job is difficult, but it is nowhere near the difficulty of what you see in the arts/theatre/music. In the case of music, you're competing against people who have probably been doing what they've been doing since they were kids.
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  #37  
Old 05-09-2017, 05:25 PM
Hartke Hartke is offline
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Originally Posted by ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe View Post
I was applying during a slow time in hiring. It was during the summer, and I applied to every position available on indeed.com. I also went to individual company websites and applied to all of the the listings. I had no restriction location wise and no visa requirements. My recruiter from DW Simpson did not manage to get me even a single phone interview for the month and a half I was searching. I thought that my resume was an instant hire resume for an EL actuarial position.

Our definition of "saturated" might be different. I had a strong resume and believed that I would be able to get a job anywhere I wanted. In reality, I applied to all of the positions available in the US and was not pleased by the response rate.
Its common for DW Simpson not to place ELs. Did you get a job in 1.5 months? multiple offers? 1.5 months on the EL market is effectively 'instant hire' imo.
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  #38  
Old 05-09-2017, 06:06 PM
ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe is offline
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Its common for DW Simpson not to place ELs. Did you get a job in 1.5 months? multiple offers? 1.5 months on the EL market is effectively 'instant hire' imo.
1 job offer only. I got my job in about 2 months months total from start to end. I spent 1.5 months applying to jobs. They needed someone to work for them right away, so I started 2 weeks after my in person interview. I lived relatively close geographically (only moved about 3 hours) and was willing to start as soon as possible.

I spent every day refreshing indeed.com to see if new jobs popped up. I applied to every position available. I was starting to lose hope after about a month, and I was leaning towards applying to non-actuarial positions. I think the main problem was that I was applying to positions when positions weren't available.

I still felt like I should have gotten more offers or responses though given my credentials at the time:
- 3.9 GPA with a Math Degree and business administration minor
- 2 exams passed while studying for 3rd exam; all VEEs done
- President of Actuary club
- 1 actuarial internship
- Math tutor in college
- Member of multiple organizations in college (math club, honors club, fraternity, scholarship organizations, etc)
- Relevant technical skills and familiarity with programming
- Salutatorian in high school and graduated high school at the age of 16
- Born in the US

The resume alone should have been enough to get through most HR filters. However, I did not get as many phone interviews as I thought I would get. I thought that I was a 90% percentile candidate. Receiving all of those rejection emails hurt my pride and gave me a harsh reality check.
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  #39  
Old 05-09-2017, 06:26 PM
kyotousa kyotousa is offline
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Originally Posted by ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe View Post
The resume alone should have been enough to get through most HR filters. However, I did not get as many phone interviews as I thought I would get. I thought that I was a 90% percentile candidate. Receiving all of those rejection emails hurt my pride and gave me a harsh reality check.
I hope that's a joke.....
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  #40  
Old 05-09-2017, 06:32 PM
Westley Westley is offline
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With that resume, surprised that you didn't have something lined up before you graduated (I'm assuming May grad), which most such candidates do. Agree that resume should get lots of interviews (whether you can convert an interview into a hire depends on a lot of factors that aren't captured in resume, both your abilities and the companies' needs).

Given the timing, I'm inclined to believe that most rejections were because the company didn't really have an opening (which doesn't really make sense if you're applying off of indeed and other job sites), or was specifically targeting local candidates. Like I said, it's definitely support for the "saturated" side.

Again, that's ridiculously fast and was also wondering (until you mentioned rejection letters) how many of them just didn't get around to calling you before you found something. Just for some perspective, when I was running EL and intern hiring for a relatively large employer of actuaries, we started in September preparing for the next round of hiring, people that would start in May, June, or July normally.
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