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  #51  
Old 05-10-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe View Post
I actually think it depends on the person and company. I had one or two interviews towards the end of my job search for non-actuarial positions at insurance companies. At the end of one of the interviews, they asked me if I was really willing to continue on with the interview process for the non-actuarial position or wait until August when their actuarial positions opened up. They were impressed by my resume and knew that I wanted to be an actuary. They gave me a choice at the end, and I told them that I would much rather wait to be an actuary. I decided to solely focus on pursuing actuarial positions after that. I ended up getting an actuarial position at another company before August though.
Oh certainly at that specific spot, but I'm assuming all job applications are to actuarial positions. That instance was a case of crossing between labor markets.
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  #52  
Old 05-10-2017, 09:56 AM
ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe is offline
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Oh certainly at that specific spot, but I'm assuming all job applications are to actuarial positions. That instance was a case of crossing between labor markets.
I applied to all of the actuarial positions I could find before looking at non-actuarial positions though. I was demotivated and giving into the idea of obtaining other work experience first before becoming an actuary. The job season was real to me. There were not that many actuarial positions available, and I was constantly browsing for more positions to open up. However, I never got to the point where I wanted to cold email random actuaries.
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  #53  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:27 AM
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The tragedy is that rough around the edges candidates like me who turned out to be decent aren't considered because they require investment, some risk, and an atypical hiring outlook.
I disagree with the whole argument of "the bar is set too high. I didn't meet the criteria, but I ended up being a good candidate in the long run." IMO that's like saying "The CAS/SOA should give me passing scores on all my exams, even if I don't meet the criteria. Sure, I don't know all the answers right now, but with a few more years on the job I will certainly learn those things."

This argument seems to be about when you should evaluate someone against a bar, not how high the bar should be. IMO you don't get your credentials until you meet all the requirements, and you shouldn't get a job until you meet those requirements either. Why should I take the risk that you may never mature into a great candidate? And why should I put up with a longer learning curve just because you didn't prepare yourself to be a good candidate right out of college?

Of course the requirements outlined above are not the end-all-be-all of what will make a good actuary in the long run. But neither are the requirements to attain FCAS/FSA.
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  #54  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:48 AM
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With that resume, surprised that you didn't have something lined up before you graduated (I'm assuming May grad), which most such candidates do. Agree that resume should get lots of interviews (whether you can convert an interview into a hire depends on a lot of factors that aren't captured in resume, both your abilities and the companies' needs).

Given the timing, I'm inclined to believe that most rejections were because the company didn't really have an opening (which doesn't really make sense if you're applying off of indeed and other job sites), or was specifically targeting local candidates. Like I said, it's definitely support for the "saturated" side.

Again, that's ridiculously fast and was also wondering (until you mentioned rejection letters) how many of them just didn't get around to calling you before you found something. Just for some perspective, when I was running EL and intern hiring for a relatively large employer of actuaries, we started in September preparing for the next round of hiring, people that would start in May, June, or July normally.
I was about to write a very similar post.

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Originally Posted by ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe View Post
Never had to deal with so much failure and rejection in my life all at once. I'm a perfectionist though.

My mindset before was "oh, if you have so and so requirements, you will instantly get a job anywhere you want!"

I got those requirements and more but did not get to pick where I wanted to work. Ended up getting lucky and got a job in an area I actually wanted to live in.
Dump this attitude immediately. Colleges sell degrees, SOA sells exams and credentials. Use your degree and credentials the best you can, but dont think you are entitled to greatness because of them. This is coming from some one with that same attitude out of college and had to learn a lot of hard lessons in the years after.
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  #55  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:58 AM
ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe ToBeAnActuaryOrNotToBe is offline
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Dump this attitude immediately. Colleges sell degrees, SOA sells exams and credentials. Use your degree and credentials the best you can, but dont think you are entitled to greatness because of them.
I've dumped that attitude a long time ago. I had that mindset engraved cause of the stuff I read on the AO and /r/actuary. Most people kept on repeating "get blah blah blah and you are guaranteed a job" or "these candidates cannot get a job cause they are missing blah blah blah." This ideal was also repeated by the faculty adviser of the actuarial science club at my university. She kept on telling us to hit certain benchmarks and that obtaining a job would be easy after that.

The job market keeps on changing, and nothing is guaranteed in life. You can work hard your entire life and still not be rewarded what you think is fair compensation.

Oh well. I like my current job and where I'm at in my life right now. I still believe that the EL market is saturated.
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  #56  
Old 05-10-2017, 01:04 PM
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I've dumped that attitude a long time ago. I had that mindset engraved cause of the stuff I read on the AO and /r/actuary. Most people kept on repeating "get blah blah blah and you are guaranteed a job" or "these candidates cannot get a job cause they are missing blah blah blah." This ideal was also repeated by the faculty adviser of the actuarial science club at my university. She kept on telling us to hit certain benchmarks and that obtaining a job would be easy after that.

The job market keeps on changing, and nothing is guaranteed in life. You can work hard your entire life and still not be rewarded what you think is fair compensation.

Oh well. I like my current job and where I'm at in my life right now. I still believe that the EL market is saturated.
Glad you came to this conclusion already. My school was also guilty of propaganda such as "get our degree + a few exams = 1,000000 job offers!".

The internets also have a habit of commoditizing the EL market.

im so glad my EL days are behind me.
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  #57  
Old 05-10-2017, 02:01 PM
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"get our degree + a few exams = 1,000000 job offers!".
Very interesting number format
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  #58  
Old 05-10-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ichbinnreine View Post
Very interesting number format
He's using the european number format. seems like some pretty weak bragging, though.
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i think everyone needs to do this type of thing to get a dose of reality and straighten people up. it's kinda like going to the mountains and becoming a monk except it's with hundreds of potatoes and a lot of stoners with tattoos in a kitchen
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  #59  
Old 05-10-2017, 02:04 PM
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He's using the european number format. seems like some pretty weak bragging, though.
Oh don't start bringing up inheritance!
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  #60  
Old 05-10-2017, 02:17 PM
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