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  #61  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:46 AM
jas66Kent jas66Kent is offline
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Are you in the Northeast?
I would say 55 is the top I can do without losing quality.
11 hours/day with no loss in quality?

Zero chance of that.
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  #62  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:51 AM
nonlnear nonlnear is offline
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Originally Posted by jas66Kent View Post
11 hours/day with no loss in quality?

Zero chance of that.
Hey, maybe he does a menial job with consistently shitty quality.

ETA: Wow, I sure had the snark cranked up to 11 when I posted that!

Last edited by nonlnear; 02-14-2018 at 09:09 AM..
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  #63  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:55 AM
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Westley Westley is offline
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11 hours/day with no loss in quality?

Zero chance of that.
If I know about it in advance, I can schedule constructively. Detailed work in the morning, review stuff in the afternoon, late afternoon/evening is for meetings/calls that I need to participate in but don't really need to be on top of my game. Spend the last hour of the day doing mindless tasks like managing emails that have been sitting.

"no loss in quality" is a high bar, but I think it can be minimized pretty effectively if you have some flexibility to manage it. I also think I could do this better when I was younger
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  #64  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:04 AM
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If I worked 55 hours in a week some of that was on the weekend. I can do a couple of ten hour days at good quality, but longer in a day, or more than a couple of those in a week, and you aren't seeing my best work. I also had more stamina when I was younger, but still think that my really long weeks included weekend hours.
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  #65  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:13 AM
jas66Kent jas66Kent is offline
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Originally Posted by Westley View Post
If I know about it in advance, I can schedule constructively. Detailed work in the morning, review stuff in the afternoon, late afternoon/evening is for meetings/calls that I need to participate in but don't really need to be on top of my game. Spend the last hour of the day doing mindless tasks like managing emails that have been sitting.

"no loss in quality" is a high bar, but I think it can be minimized pretty effectively if you have some flexibility to manage it. I also think I could do this better when I was younger
Thats what I do as well. Do the detail stuff in the AM, and leave the less detailed stuff to the PM. But even then, after 3-4 weeks of that you start to get a bit burned out. It gets progressively worse if you do it for longer as well. I can do 8 possibly 9 hours/day at 100% consistently. But over that, the productivity trend line starts to taper downwards.

This obviously all depends on the actual complexity of the work you do as nonlnear alluded to, so I could be wrong in the case of actuarial folks that work in depts I have no experience in.
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  #66  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:05 AM
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I'm not nearly as experienced as you, but that's been the attitude at every place I've been at. It honestly baffles me when people talk about the flexibility, 40 hr cushy jobs, and $150K+ salary. I'm really starting to think this oversaturation of the field (probably not at your level though) has just caused employers to start treating employees as if they are disposable. IME, they think valuing a work life balance is starting to mean you're lazy and not cut out for the work. To give an example, at my last job even pulling 60+ hour regular weeks, my manager stated that because I didn't regularly come in on Sundays, he doubted my commitment to my job and had no problem looking for someone else (the last part was very passive aggressive, but that was essentially the message).

EDIT: But I'm not disagreeing with other posters's points that there are better jobs out there. I certainly believe there are. Just don't know where to find them.
I see similar issues at my level and I don't think it is saturation. I think impacts from the last recession are still haunting some senior execs and that want to do as much as possible with as few people as they can. It is baffling that these companies appear to be stagnant or downsizing while competitors are expanding their departments. Each company seems to have it's own culture.
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  #67  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:26 AM
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The two sentences in my last post weren't really related.

The first was more about how the Northeast perceives "normal workload" versus the rest of the country.

The second was really a reflection of myself.

I am in the Northeast, and I get no sympathy for my 60 hour weeks. Whereas in the Southeast, it'd be the impetus to switch jobs.

For me, weeks >55 hours are a struggle. My ideal week is 50 hours, split 11-12-12-11-4.

As for my statement on quality, I stand by it. Although it's probably easier to do for me at 26 than for all of you in your 40's.
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  #68  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiteVeil View Post
I'm not nearly as experienced as you, but that's been the attitude at every place I've been at. It honestly baffles me when people talk about the flexibility, 40 hr cushy jobs, and $150K+ salary. I'm really starting to think this oversaturation of the field (probably not at your level though) has just caused employers to start treating employees as if they are disposable. IME, they think valuing a work life balance is starting to mean you're lazy and not cut out for the work. To give an example, at my last job even pulling 60+ hour regular weeks, my manager stated that because I didn't regularly come in on Sundays, he doubted my commitment to my job and had no problem looking for someone else (the last part was very passive aggressive, but that was essentially the message).

EDIT: But I'm not disagreeing with other posters's points that there are better jobs out there. I certainly believe there are. Just don't know where to find them.

There is a misguided notion in the white collar world that treating your subordinates poorly is acceptable because you went through the same thing when you were at that level. But I think it's a reflection of people's personalities more than anything else.

In other words, I think the norm is trending towards more hours, but people like you're describing are simply *******s. It has everything to do with personalities and nothing to do with the person being treated poorly being replaceable or not.
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  #69  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiteVeil View Post
I'm not nearly as experienced as you, but that's been the attitude at every place I've been at. It honestly baffles me when people talk about the flexibility, 40 hr cushy jobs, and $150K+ salary. I'm really starting to think this oversaturation of the field (probably not at your level though) has just caused employers to start treating employees as if they are disposable. IME, they think valuing a work life balance is starting to mean you're lazy and not cut out for the work. To give an example, at my last job even pulling 60+ hour regular weeks, my manager stated that because I didn't regularly come in on Sundays, he doubted my commitment to my job and had no problem looking for someone else (the last part was very passive aggressive, but that was essentially the message).

EDIT: But I'm not disagreeing with other posters's points that there are better jobs out there. I certainly believe there are. Just don't know where to find them.
Were they at least paying you? I've got some coworkers who work in a high-pressure unit. Regular working hours are from 8AM to 8PM and they're expected to work on weekends. Firing for underperformance happens regularly. However, they routinely clear $200k+ and these are non managing staff actuaries in their 20s.

That hasn't really been the norm in my experience...typical insurance company actuaries do work low stress 35hr/week jobs. It just so happens that in that unit, really ambitious people are in charge, and they expect their employees to have the same attitude towards work.

I think you should do your research on what companies have a low stress culture. Having a really large network so that you know the going-ons at each company helps in that regard, so start reaching out on LinkedIn, etc.
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Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
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  #70  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:48 AM
jas66Kent jas66Kent is offline
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Originally Posted by ShivamS View Post
The two sentences in my last post weren't really related.

The first was more about how the Northeast perceives "normal workload" versus the rest of the country.

The second was really a reflection of myself.

I am in the Northeast, and I get no sympathy for my 60 hour weeks. Whereas in the Southeast, it'd be the impetus to switch jobs.

For me, weeks >55 hours are a struggle. My ideal week is 50 hours, split 11-12-12-11-4.

As for my statement on quality, I stand by it. Although it's probably easier to do for me at 26 than for all of you in your 40's.
We have an opening for a new associate.....
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