Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > General Actuarial
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


General Actuarial Non-Specific Actuarial Topics - Before posting a thread, please browse over our other sections to see if there is a better fit, such as Careers - Employment, Actuarial Science Universities Forum or any of our other 100+ forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:08 AM
Enough Exams Already Enough Exams Already is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
It’s not “the most terrible thing ever”; it’s just another terrible thing from the AAA. And I won’t pretend to know what nefarious things could happen behind closed doors. I will merely observe that nefarious things are much more easily accomplished behind closed doors. Finally, if our profession really wants to stay (mostly) self-regulating, then this sort of change is not going to help. It’s moving in the wrong direction.

Bruce
Then perhaps we shouldn't be self-regulating anymore. If members aren't going to be transparent about the discussions they have and the decisions they make regarding the profession, then maybe the best course of action is for us to be regulated by outsiders who will be transparent and subject to open meeting laws.
__________________
"Allow me to introduce you to the American public.
You'll want to wash your hands afterward."
--Samantha

"I guess I just have a lower prior-expectation of humanity than you folks. You win for optimism, but I win for accuracy."
--Pseudolus

"I wonder if there's a lower bound on how dumb the internet can get. We gotta be getting close, right?"
--Mother of DragQueens
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:20 AM
campbell's Avatar
campbell campbell is offline
Mary Pat Campbell
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NY
Studying for duolingo and coursera
Favorite beer: Murphy's Irish Stout
Posts: 82,056
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Here was the announcement of the change of policy:

http://www.actuary.org/content/thisw...-29-feb-2-2018

Quote:
Updated Board and Committee Meetings Policy

At its January meeting, the Academy Board of Directors updated its existing meetings policy to ensure that the objectivity and independence of the Academy continue in our public policy and professionalism work. The work of Academy volunteers and committees needs to be done in a deliberative environment that is robust, frank, and considers diverse sources of information and different perspectives, free from any specific interests of the employers of its members or of any other special interest group or organization. The revised policy will clarify and strengthen the Academy’s efforts to continue the quality of work on which our reputation is built with the integrity that is expected. The updated policy has been posted to the Academy Policies and Guidelines section of our website.
http://www.actuary.org/content/board...eetings-policy

For those who wish to sign a public petition:
http://asbcoqsunshine.com/public-maaa-petition/

http://asbcoqsunshine.com/supporters...law-amendment/
__________________
It's STUMP

LinkedIn Profile
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:25 AM
bdschobel's Avatar
bdschobel bdschobel is online now
Past SOA President
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sunrise, FL
Studying for FSA '76
College: MIT '74
Posts: 15,130
Default

Good grief. Reminds me of "we destroyed the village to save the village." Keep up the good work, AAA. But make sure it's done in secret.

Bruce
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:58 AM
|B|rad |B|rad is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 978
Default

Is this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenNsmith View Post
in a closed-door meeting the American Academy of Actuaries Board of Directors voted to close all meetings of the Committee on Qualifications and closed all Actuarial Standards Board meetings unless the chair approves the observer’s attendance.
partially contradicted by this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.actuary.org/content/board-and-committee-meetings-policy -- emphasis mine
The American Academy of Actuaries (the “Academy”) has adopted the following policy with respect to attendance at, and participation in, Academy meetings. This policy covers all Academy boards, committees, task forces, practice councils, work groups, and all other constituent bodies (all such bodies, a “Committee”) except it does not apply to any meeting of the following:

...

(c) Committees of the Board, President, President-Elect, or Secretary-Treasurer, or the Committee on Qualifications
?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:01 AM
JMO's Avatar
JMO JMO is offline
Carol Marler
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Back home again in Indiana
Studying for Nothing actuarial.
Posts: 37,085
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcie View Post
Sorry, can someone ELI5 why this is the most terrible thing ever? I mean sure, the optics are awful here in going from semi-transparent to completely opaque, but what nefarious things are we thinking the CoQ and/or ASB will concoct behind closed doors?
The SOA did this sort of thing a long time ago and I have been complaining about it ever since. Except for certain matters, like compensation, there is NO NEED for secrecy. The whole profession seems to be trying to become like some corruption-ridden government in Africa or South America.

OK, I'm done.

No wait. I second what Bruce has said.
__________________
Carol Marler, "Just My Opinion"

Pluto is no longer a planet and I am no longer an actuary. Please take my opinions as non-actuarial.


My latest favorite quotes, updated Apr 5, 2018.

Spoiler:
I should keep these four permanently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekrap View Post
JMO is right
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
I agree with JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
And def agree w/ JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG View Post
This. And everything else JMO wrote.
And this all purpose permanent quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Yup, it is always someone else's fault.
MORE:
All purpose response for careers forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorNo View Post
Depends upon the employer and the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sredni Vashtar View Post
I feel like ERM is 90% buzzwords, and that the underlying agenda is to make sure at least one of your Corporate Officers is not dumb.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:20 AM
Doctor Who's Avatar
Doctor Who Doctor Who is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,943
Default

The CAS continues put the SOA and AAA to shame.

I believe it was Bruce who pointed this out a long time ago, but pension actuaries are over represented (SOA and/or AAA?)

It seems whenever there is a professionalism webcast, it is always the pension actuaries that are the examples of conflict.

Pensions are the biggest risk to the actuarial profession. Actuaries will continue to get blamed for all of those underfunded DB plans.

I'm not at all surprised that it seems like pension actuaries are behind this change.

Last edited by Doctor Who; 02-14-2018 at 11:32 AM.. Reason: fixed typo, thanks MPC
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:55 AM
KarenNsmith KarenNsmith is offline
SOA CCA AAA ASPPA
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Great State of Texas
Studying for ASPPA CPC
College: UT 1990
Posts: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by |B|rad View Post
Is this:



partially contradicted by this:



?
Great Question! The way they wrote the policy is is very hard to follow. But, if you read it carefully, you will see that at the beginning of the policy they completely close the ABCD, Board of Directors and CoQ. Then rest of the policy goes onto to explain how rest of the Academy's meetings are open only to members when approved by the chair. I hope that helps!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-14-2018, 11:25 AM
JMO's Avatar
JMO JMO is offline
Carol Marler
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Back home again in Indiana
Studying for Nothing actuarial.
Posts: 37,085
Default

Was this lawsuit part of the reason? http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actu...d.php?t=319693
__________________
Carol Marler, "Just My Opinion"

Pluto is no longer a planet and I am no longer an actuary. Please take my opinions as non-actuarial.


My latest favorite quotes, updated Apr 5, 2018.

Spoiler:
I should keep these four permanently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekrap View Post
JMO is right
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
I agree with JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
And def agree w/ JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG View Post
This. And everything else JMO wrote.
And this all purpose permanent quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Yup, it is always someone else's fault.
MORE:
All purpose response for careers forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorNo View Post
Depends upon the employer and the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sredni Vashtar View Post
I feel like ERM is 90% buzzwords, and that the underlying agenda is to make sure at least one of your Corporate Officers is not dumb.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:56 PM
actexp actexp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,140
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenNsmith View Post
Great Question! The way they wrote the policy is is very hard to follow. But, if you read it carefully, you will see that at the beginning of the policy they completely close the ABCD, Board of Directors and CoQ. Then rest of the policy goes onto to explain how rest of the Academy's meetings are open only to members when approved by the chair. I hope that helps!
Congress and state legislative bodies are generally open and we get to see the robust, frank, and idiotic opinions voiced there, as well as how people voted. I can see the need for privacy on ABCD given nature of what they do, as well as the need for occasional executive sessions of Boards of Directors and stuff. The question is why would members be reluctant to share certain their views in public but would discourse in private, and does this and other considerations require outweigh the benefits of transparency. Incorrect note-taking and misrepresentation of what was said by someone does seem to be a concern, but there should be ample number of witnesses to refute anything materially mis-stated. It isn't 100% black and white, but this will just chip away at members' and the public's confidence in these entities, who generally perform in an honest, ethical, and manner
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:59 PM
actexp actexp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,140
Default

an added note. Attended an ASB meeting a number of years ago, won't go into reasons why. Someone at the time said it was very unusual to have visitors at their meetings. After sitting thru one, very little danger of me coming back again. Not exciting must see TV imo, to put it mildly....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
academy, asb, coq, sunrise, sunset, sunshine

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.35814 seconds with 10 queries