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  #21  
Old 02-14-2018, 02:34 PM
KarenNsmith KarenNsmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actexp View Post
an added note. Attended an ASB meeting a number of years ago, won't go into reasons why. Someone at the time said it was very unusual to have visitors at their meetings. After sitting thru one, very little danger of me coming back again. Not exciting must see TV imo, to put it mildly....
LOL! I went to one day of the November ASB meeting. I am a pension actuary so I attended the day they were discussing ASOP 27 and ASOP 35. I found it interesting, but I imagine if it were a different practice area, it might have been difficult for me to stay engaged...Part of the silliness of all this is that I was super-impressed by the ASB meeting. I really did go away feeling better about the process after having watched them deliberate. The conversation was thoughtful. Why would we want to hide that?
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  #22  
Old 02-14-2018, 05:30 PM
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Carol Marler
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Google didn't help this time. What is "ELIS"?
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Originally Posted by Marcie View Post
Also, any ideas, either speculative or informed, on why this change was made? Were observers raising a ruckus in meetings or otherwise disrupting the function of these committees?
Lawyers taking over?
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Originally Posted by Enough Exams Already View Post
Then perhaps we shouldn't be self-regulating anymore. If members aren't going to be transparent about the discussions they have and the decisions they make regarding the profession, then maybe the best course of action is for us to be regulated by outsiders who will be transparent and subject to open meeting laws.
This would be politicians taking over.

Again, glad I am no longer officially part of the profession.

Ex-Actuary JMO
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My latest favorite quotes, updated Feb 15, 2018. Hmmm. It's been quite a while.

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JMO is right
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I agree with JMO.
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And def agree w/ JMO.
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This. And everything else JMO wrote.
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Yup, it is always someone else's fault.
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But sometimes you get someone who has that charming mix of "don't care" and "don't get it", and there's just not much you can do.
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I recommend you get perspective.
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Dude, you can't fail a personality test. It just isn't that kind of test.
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  #23  
Old 02-14-2018, 05:42 PM
Enough Exams Already Enough Exams Already is offline
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Google didn't help this time. What is "ELIS"?

Lawyers taking over?

This would be politicians taking over.

Again, glad I am no longer officially part of the profession.

Ex-Actuary JMO
ELI5, not ELIS--Explain Like I'm 5 (Years Old).

Lawyers, politicians--no real difference to me in this situation. Either way, it would be more transparent than self-regulation by our own. And since we would demand that politicians or lawyers be transparent in their regulation of us, we have to be transparent in our regulation of ourselves.
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  #24  
Old 02-14-2018, 06:08 PM
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BruteForce BruteForce is offline
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ELI5 = Explain Like I'm 5.

Don't worry JMO, I had to google it too.
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I would really hate to bring Pokémon to a gun fight.
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  #25  
Old 02-14-2018, 06:09 PM
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BruteForce BruteForce is offline
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Ninja'd!

That's what I get for getting distracted at work
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I would really hate to bring Pokémon to a gun fight.
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  #26  
Old 02-14-2018, 07:03 PM
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Carol Marler
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Originally Posted by BruteForce View Post
ELI5 = Explain Like I'm 5.

Don't worry JMO, I had to google it too.
At least you spelled it right.
__________________
Carol Marler, "Just My Opinion"

Pluto is no longer a planet and I am no longer an actuary. Please take my opinions as non-actuarial.


My latest favorite quotes, updated Feb 15, 2018. Hmmm. It's been quite a while.

Spoiler:
I should keep these four permanently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekrap View Post
JMO is right
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
I agree with JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
And def agree w/ JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG View Post
This. And everything else JMO wrote.
And this all purpose permanent quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Yup, it is always someone else's fault.
MORE:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
But sometimes you get someone who has that charming mix of "don't care" and "don't get it", and there's just not much you can do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro View Post
I recommend you get perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enough Exams Already View Post
Dude, you can't fail a personality test. It just isn't that kind of test.
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  #27  
Old 02-15-2018, 01:32 PM
cpfortenberry cpfortenberry is offline
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Originally Posted by actexp View Post
Incorrect note-taking and misrepresentation of what was said by someone does seem to be a concern, but there should be ample number of witnesses to refute anything materially mis-stated. It isn't 100% black and white, but this will just chip away at members' and the public's confidence in these entities, who generally perform in an honest, ethical, and manner
Why not just have all public sessions recorded? This would allow for anyone's notes or recollections of the proceedings to be easily verified.
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  #28  
Old 02-15-2018, 02:49 PM
CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is offline
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Originally Posted by cpfortenberry View Post
Why not just have all public sessions recorded? This would allow for anyone's notes or recollections of the proceedings to be easily verified.
The concern that I was seeing is with a committee member potentially voicing an opinion that might be seen as conflicting with their employer's best interest. If what you say is likely to get back to your employer, you may be more hesitant to raise/support important, but controversial issues.
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  #29  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:29 PM
KarenNsmith KarenNsmith is offline
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It is a HUGE problem if we have our standards set by people who are living double lives - they say one things in front of their clients or their employer and then say another thing when it comes time to set standards. The ASB and CoQ members need to be leaders of the profession - the kind of people who are advocating for better actuarial practice with their clients and employers - not people who see what needs to change but who need a new standard implemented to do it so that they have cover. If someone needs to be behind closed doors to say what they really think the right thing is, maybe they don't belong on the ASB or CoQ. I am not saying they are a bad person or actuary - I am saying they are not at a point in their life and career where they should be involved in standard setting. If we can't deal with these conflicts, we can't self-regulate. I don't know how you say to a regulator that actuaries can't discuss these things in the open because of their self-interest or their employer's interest. That is the same as saying we can't do it ourselves.
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  #30  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:33 PM
Midgets with Guns Midgets with Guns is offline
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Agreed, that sounds like a much better argument for external regulation than an argument to remove transparency.
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