Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions

Salary Surveys
Property & Casualty, Life, Health & Pension

Health Actuary Jobs
Insurance & Consulting jobs for Students, Associates & Fellows

Actuarial Recruitment
Visit DW Simpson's website for more info.
www.dwsimpson.com/about

Casualty Jobs
Property & Casualty jobs for Students, Associates & Fellows


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #61  
Old 09-13-2018, 07:07 PM
Yamamay Yamamay is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens Fan View Post
It's possible that SAS will make a comeback due to IFRS 17. It's one of the front runners along with AXIS for IFRS valuation. SAS costs about 10 times more than AXIS though.
I thought AXIS was 5k and SAS around 3 or 4k ? In CAD.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 09-13-2018, 08:07 PM
Canadiens Fan Canadiens Fan is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Canada
Studying for Life ALM & Modeling
Favorite beer: Blue Moon
Posts: 4,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamamay View Post
I thought AXIS was 5k and SAS around 3 or 4k ? In CAD.
SAS on its own probably, but their package for IFRS 17 is more expensive than AXIS.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:04 PM
PeppermintPatty's Avatar
PeppermintPatty PeppermintPatty is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 42,118
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Actuario View Post
Iíll be the contrarian and recommend Python. Itís an easy language to learn. Like R, it has a lot of great tools for statistical computing. Unlike R, itís a versatile language with a wide array of applications beyond the realm of data science.
But if you are interviewing with an old computer illiterate actuary, he's probably heard of R, and knows what it means if your can talk about what you've done in R. And he may never have heard of Python.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:15 PM
hostess's Avatar
hostess hostess is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nonactuarialactuary View Post
SAS is dying a slow death. It’s a shame because I used to love it and work with it daily, but nowadays, most companies won’t even buy the software. I went from a daily user a decade ago to someone that hasn’t touched the software at all in the last three years. SAS is incredibly expensive, and for the low cost of $0, R can do anything SAS can. In my opinion, R has a higher learning curve and worse documentation, but it’s hard to beat $0. If you’re still in college and want to learn a statistical software language, learn R, not SAS. VBA is good too. The macro recorder makes it super simple to learn basic syntax, and because millions of people use Excel, there’s an enormous community of people on StackOverflow that have already asked the same question you have. Despite some of the crazier opinions on here, Excel is nowhere close to being obsolete. Even though an electric drill/screwdriver makes sense in certain contexts, a regular screwdriver still has its place. Excel is the dependable regular screwdriver that everyone knows how to use, doesn’t require any special permissions to install, is super portable, etc. Plenty of actuaries spend their entire career in Excel without touching the more advanced tools.

That said, if I find myself looking for money in my 70s, I’m expecting to make bank as a SAS programmer dealing with legacy systems. 70+ year old COBOL programmers occasionally come out of retirement at huge rates because nobody else knows COBOL anymore. Eventually, SAS will be similar.
I was asking my manager why we didn't do our model building in R (glm models) instead of SAS and he gave me a bunch of reasons that didn't make any sense to me... but they may just have been too complicated for me to understand.

He may have just been looking for reasons and didn't wanna admit that R is better because he didn't want to have a whole department undergo R training.

He said something about R doing matrix computations whereas SAS does it another way which is preferable.... but in my mind a glm is a glm... the result will be the same either way and given that students are learning R in school rather than SAS, it may be beneficial to start implementing R into companies (and many have).

Last edited by hostess; 09-13-2018 at 11:23 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 09-14-2018, 01:31 AM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 48,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hostess View Post
I was asking my manager why we didn't do our model building in R (glm models) instead of SAS and he gave me a bunch of reasons that didn't make any sense to me... but they may just have been too complicated for me to understand.

He may have just been looking for reasons and didn't wanna admit that R is better because he didn't want to have a whole department undergo R training.

He said something about R doing matrix computations whereas SAS does it another way which is preferable.... but in my mind a glm is a glm... the result will be the same either way and given that students are learning R in school rather than SAS, it may be beneficial to start implementing R into companies (and many have).
The one thing I can think of as to why it might be a good idea to use SAS is (at least until recently) the professional support. If a production system goes down due to a bug, someone at SAS will fix it and business will continue as usual.

If you try to host a production environment in R without vendor support (or an internal support team), if something breaks, then people who don't specialize in fixing things are all of a sudden scrambling around trying to find out what went wrong. You may not have someone on staff who has the expertise to fix a dependency.

But nowadays there are vendors that offer support for open source software. We use Azure, and although it's Microsoft, they offer support for things like R and Spark.

Databricks is another company founded by the core development team of Spark, and many of the major contributors to Spark work for Databricks. The way they make money is via compute processing fees & support.

So open source is free as in freedom. Free to read, free to use, free to change, but not exactly free to implement in a business environment. You pay for it one way or another, but if I were to choose between open/closed source, open source it is.
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:03 AM
ao fan's Avatar
ao fan ao fan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: hating the ao
Studying for EA-2L
Posts: 106,116
Blog Entries: 1
Default

i have never used R or SAS or Spark or whatever. Team fortran ftw!
__________________
Be prepared to be overwhelmed by cuteness!!!!
Spoiler:
awesome, crazy, badass maltese (compliments of booger):
Spoiler:
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:19 AM
Marcie's Avatar
Marcie Marcie is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 9,656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ao fan View Post
i have never used R or SAS or Spark or whatever. Team fortran ftw!
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:39 AM
Canadiens Fan Canadiens Fan is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Canada
Studying for Life ALM & Modeling
Favorite beer: Blue Moon
Posts: 4,588
Default

I think your best bang for the buck would be to have a very solid background in VBA, because pretty much every actuarial job uses Excel. Second to VBA would be SQL because Access is pretty widely used as well. Even if you learn R, Python, etc there's a good chance that you won't get to use them for an actuarial job.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:44 AM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 48,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens Fan View Post
I think your best bang for the buck would be to have a very solid background in VBA, because pretty much every actuarial job uses Excel. Second to VBA would be SQL because Access is pretty widely used as well. Even if you learn R, Python, etc there's a good chance that you won't get to use them for an actuarial job.
This line of thinking is so old school, I don't know what to say. Keep in mind that OP is at least 10 years younger than the rest of us here. Sure, Excel can be useful for working on the occasional legacy system every now and then. Access? What a joke. Don't even get me started man.

If your company uses Access, it's probably the product of some actuary who's sadly proud of his work and think he's built something amazing, but probably doesn't do anything important or productive. It's such a junk toy that I can't think of any good reason why anyone would want to use it in a business environment.
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:52 AM
trueblade's Avatar
trueblade trueblade is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Castlevania
Studying for Freedom
Posts: 1,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens Fan View Post
I think your best bang for the buck would be to have a very solid background in VBA, because pretty much every actuarial job uses Excel. Second to VBA would be SQL because Access is pretty widely used as well. Even if you learn R, Python, etc there's a good chance that you won't get to use them for an actuarial job.
You are talking about Life & Health. For P&C, SAS is much more commonly used. I work in pricing and at the beginning of the year the whole pricing department had a R training. The goal is to move most of the modeling and data visualization work to R going forward. Also a few of them is doing some work in Python (Even our VP is self-learning Python). All our pricing job postings require exposure to R and Python now. I know at some point, I have to pick up these two languages and be good at it. However I'm currently pursuing CAS fellowship and do not have the energy to focus on exams and R/Python same time.
__________________


ACAS 7 8 9
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.47658 seconds with 9 queries