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  #561  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:20 PM
BernieSanders2016 BernieSanders2016 is offline
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I think this question largely misses the point. They mostly just want the ability to get a job where they can work 40-50 hours a week and support a middle class lifestyle. Their theories on why that's proving elusive are probably varied, but when a guy comes along who promises that they can indeed have what they want... that's going to sound good to them... irrespective of his/their beliefs of what the problem or solution is.

I'm sure you've heard the expression that people vote with their pocketbooks. At the end of the day that's what matters.
I think it's very important who they blame for not being able to get a job.
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  #562  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:24 PM
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You've never watched a Trump rally have you?
It's clear that you don't even bother to read or consider anything that disagrees with your pre-formed opinion.
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  #563  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:27 PM
BernieSanders2016 BernieSanders2016 is offline
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It's clear that you don't even bother to read or consider anything that disagrees with your pre-formed opinion.
I think you've given this overwhelmingly more thought than 99.99% of the people at those rallies wearing the hat chanting "build that wall".

Like, the level of discussion you want to have about the meaning of MAGA is far above the level of thought the actual people wearing the hats are giving it.
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  #564  
Old 03-11-2019, 03:03 PM
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Who do they blame for there being no good jobs, though? They blame immigrants, they blame China, they blame a bunch of non-white people for the jobs going away.
They blame big corporations, they blame trade agreements that favor imports from china and outsourcing of labor, they blame EPA initiatives that made it costly for businesses to operate in the US but cheap to go operate in a different country that doesn't have those regulations,

Yes, they blame China... and I don't blame them. On the whole, China uses poor and unsafe manufacturing process, pays their employees pitifully, has crappy quality control, etc. They keep having problems with contamination with lead and melamine. They make low quality products really cheaply, and face such low import taxes (right kind of tax?) that it's pretty easy to push american made stuff right out of the market, and out of the country.

I don't blame chinese people, and I certainly don't have any hate for people... but I really strongly disapprove of the business practices used by chinese companies.
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  #565  
Old 03-11-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BernieSanders2016 View Post
I think you've given this overwhelmingly more thought than 99.99% of the people at those rallies wearing the hat chanting "build that wall".

Like, the level of discussion you want to have about the meaning of MAGA is far above the level of thought the actual people wearing the hats are giving it.
On the other hand, I think you've given it almost zero thought at all, no attempt to understand a perspective, and you've done nothing but make an assumption of negative motive then rationalize it to yourself so that you feel justified spreading that stereotype to an entire group of people... and then going on to vilify them. Isn't righteousness wonderful?
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Text doesn't have intonation, so I might misinterpret your post. I'll ask for clarification if you do the same.
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  #566  
Old 03-11-2019, 03:09 PM
BernieSanders2016 BernieSanders2016 is offline
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On the other hand, I think you've given it almost zero thought at all, no attempt to understand a perspective, and you've done nothing but make an assumption of negative motive then rationalize it to yourself so that you feel justified spreading that stereotype to an entire group of people... and then going on to vilify them. Isn't righteousness wonderful?
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  #567  
Old 03-11-2019, 03:46 PM
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I think it's very important who they blame for not being able to get a job.
I think it can have a significant impact on the policies espoused by the politicians they vote for.

I think people who don't have good jobs are going to vote for whichever politician they believe is the most likely to make a change that will result in them getting a job... whether that means tighter immigration policies, changing how corporations are taxed, protective tariffs, etc.

I think they are primarily motivated by the desire to support their family and at least maintain if not slightly improve upon the quality of life that their parents enjoyed.

If they believed increased immigration were a means to that end they'd support increased immigration. If they believed decreased immigration were a means to that end they'd support decreased immigration.

I think the racism is generally a by-product. After generations of being told they don't have jobs because of brown immigrants it can certainly become ingrained, but at the end of the day their problem is still lack of jobs, not brown immigrants. If they had a better lifestyle than their parents they'd accept the brown immigrants much more quickly, I'm betting.
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  #568  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:58 AM
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I think it can have a significant impact on the policies espoused by the politicians they vote for.

I think people who don't have good jobs are going to vote for whichever politician they believe is the most likely to make a change that will result in them getting a job... whether that means tighter immigration policies, changing how corporations are taxed, protective tariffs, etc.

I think they are primarily motivated by the desire to support their family and at least maintain if not slightly improve upon the quality of life that their parents enjoyed.

If they believed increased immigration were a means to that end they'd support increased immigration. If they believed decreased immigration were a means to that end they'd support decreased immigration.

I think the racism is generally a by-product. After generations of being told they don't have jobs because of brown immigrants it can certainly become ingrained, but at the end of the day their problem is still lack of jobs, not brown immigrants. If they had a better lifestyle than their parents they'd accept the brown immigrants much more quickly, I'm betting.
So they sit watching Bonanza between the commercials for nonfunctioning medical products and pillows. They dream of jobs they never had, the ones their parents spoke of reminiscing about those rose colored days. They know that a Hispanic family moved in a few units over and they are always busy, leaving early and getting back after dark. Between Newport cigarettes they consider those keeping them from what was promised. It must be those others. Hispanics, blacks. It can't be me. I love my dog, I walk it daily. I only drink domestic labeled beer. They take the money, the jobs, the status I deserve!
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  #569  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:19 AM
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It must be those others. It can't be me. They take the money, the jobs, the status I deserve!
This sounds like a good bipartisan platform. Make sure to keep ‘others’ ill-defined, and would have broad appeal.
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  #570  
Old 03-15-2019, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by twig93 View Post
I think it can have a significant impact on the policies espoused by the politicians they vote for.

I think people who don't have good jobs are going to vote for whichever politician they believe is the most likely to make a change that will result in them getting a job... whether that means tighter immigration policies, changing how corporations are taxed, protective tariffs, etc.

I think they are primarily motivated by the desire to support their family and at least maintain if not slightly improve upon the quality of life that their parents enjoyed.

If they believed increased immigration were a means to that end they'd support increased immigration. If they believed decreased immigration were a means to that end they'd support decreased immigration.

I think the racism is generally a by-product. After generations of being told they don't have jobs because of brown immigrants it can certainly become ingrained, but at the end of the day their problem is still lack of jobs, not brown immigrants. If they had a better lifestyle than their parents they'd accept the brown immigrants much more quickly, I'm betting.

And yet, when the NY Times interviews disaffected Trumpsters, they say things like "He's not hurting who he's supposed to hurt."
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