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  #61  
Old 11-10-2005, 01:19 PM
awacs awacs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I am not saying that those who copy answers into a calculator are cheating, but Stuart's standard does not say they aren't. Compare it to tearing four pages out of your exam booklet and walking out of the exam with them. Potentially, an advantage to someone is gained, if those pages are later faxed to a different time zone.
True. All I was saying was that the hypothetical rational candidate may estimate the expected value of the punishment ( = prob. of getting caught X E(punishment)) and decide that this kind of rule-breaking is worth the risk. Certainly I would do so, *if* I were assured that the the punishment would be a warning.
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  #62  
Old 11-10-2005, 01:21 PM
Stuart Klugman Stuart Klugman is offline
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I only checked the men's room, just to see if anything was left for later examination. I did not accompany candidates into the restroom. Next time I'll have one of my female proctors sweep the women's room.

The "answers in the calculator" issue is more challenging than my guidelines allowed (I am no longer part of the discipline process and don't know how the current VP views this issue). The issue I struggled with is knowing that hundreds of candidates were not getting caught. At this exam session there was an extra warning read to not touch calculators after time is called. But I doubt it is sufficient to stop the practice.
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  #63  
Old 11-10-2005, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuart Klugman
I only checked the men's room, just to see if anything was left for later examination. I did not accompany candidates into the restroom. Next time I'll have one of my female proctors sweep the women's room.

The "answers in the calculator" issue is more challenging than my guidelines allowed (I am no longer part of the discipline process and don't know how the current VP views this issue). The issue I struggled with is knowing that hundreds of candidates were not getting caught. At this exam session there was an extra warning read to not touch calculators after time is called. But I doubt it is sufficient to stop the practice.
it won't be...they'll do it before time is called. Perhaps a sweep of clearing calculators when leaving the exam similar to the memory clearing when you enter? Then again, some just write their answers on their admission slip.
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  #64  
Old 11-10-2005, 02:14 PM
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For the amount of work we put in, we should be able to take our answers out if they're going to release the exam.

Cheating on these exams is easy, it's just not worth the risk.
You and a buddy take the exam at different locations.
You each work on one half of it.
With an hour left, you both go to the bathroom and txt msg each other your half of answers.
Both gain and both parties are committed and therefore can't turn in the other without penalty. The non-cheaters suffer.

The bottom line is that someone is going to have to study (even if you get the exam to the outside to be worked) and solve these problems and people who have passed can't take it again without fake IDs. Fake IDs are easy to do b/c proctors don't know any better.

It's like anything, there is a reward for the risk you take - but in something like a career you can't take those kinds of risks.
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  #65  
Old 11-10-2005, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Wannabe Actuary
it won't be...they'll do it before time is called. Perhaps a sweep of clearing calculators when leaving the exam similar to the memory clearing when you enter? Then again, some just write their answers on their admission slip.
If they starting sweeping calculators - everyone would just actually memorize their answers or write them on their arms. There's no solution to this problem, just let it be.
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  #66  
Old 11-10-2005, 02:18 PM
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If they starting sweeping calculators - everyone would just actually memorize their answers or write them on their arms. There's no solution to this problem, just let it be.
I completely agree. I wasn't saying they should do that, just that it would eliminate a bunch of it.
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  #67  
Old 11-10-2005, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Wannabe Actuary
I completely agree. I wasn't saying they should do that, just that it would eliminate a bunch of it.
Why should it be eliminated?
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  #68  
Old 11-10-2005, 02:27 PM
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Why should it be eliminated?
Because it's against the rules?
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  #69  
Old 11-10-2005, 02:27 PM
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Why should it be eliminated?
didn't say it should...I said that process Would eliminate a bunch of it. Heck, I agree, we should be able to take our answers out for purposes of 'grading' our own exam. I was offering a suggestion to Klugman because he was discussing the problem.
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  #70  
Old 11-10-2005, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Wannabe Actuary
didn't say it should...I said that process Would eliminate a bunch of it. Heck, I agree, we should be able to take our answers out for purposes of 'grading' our own exam. I was offering a suggestion to Klugman because he was discussing the problem.
Want to take this outside!?

I took things out of context - I think my lovely 5 has left me sniffing for an exam-based argument.
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