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  #11  
Old 08-03-2017, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pragmatist View Post
Cathy O'Neil in her book Weapons of Math Destruction posits that criteria like credit scores are a subtle way to discriminate on the basis of prohibited factors such as race. Her rationale is that blacks or latinos, for instance, are likelier to have lower credit scores than white people, and thus the credit rating is effective in filtering them out.
That argument is BS
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:01 PM
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At a prior company, we used a test like this for a while. The reports were ridiculous, but they did give a chart that showed where you fell on a range for various personality characteristics - basically, if you were an extreme ("good" or "bad") in too many categories, you were out of the running.

I know that's vague, but I don't remember much of the details. The test was also designed so you couldn't game it enough to "improve" your score.
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ichbinnreine View Post
That argument is BS


corp america doesn't sit around thinking things like, "we need to come up with a way to keep the ******* and ******** out!"
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:48 PM
pragmatist pragmatist is offline
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Originally Posted by ichbinnreine View Post
That argument is BS
Of course credit rating criteria would fail in regions which are more race-homogeneous, but that's the line of her argument in this and other contexts.

Regardless, I agree that a candidate's credit score does not reveal much of his/her professional or moral attributes. I would imagine many "Ponzi"s out there have an enviable credit score, but that doesn't imply that they are finance-savvy.
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by L. Mo View Post
At a prior company, we used a test like this for a while. The reports were ridiculous, but they did give a chart that showed where you fell on a range for various personality characteristics - basically, if you were an extreme ("good" or "bad") in too many categories, you were out of the running.

I know that's vague, but I don't remember much of the details. The test was also designed so you couldn't game it enough to "improve" your score.
This is starting to make sense now.

Before I took those tests I did research and read up on a sample report.

This is the sample report that I read:

https://www.criteriacorp.com/solutio...coreReport.pdf

So for programmers:

"Programmers and software engineers tend to be significantly more introverted than the general population, reflecting the
fact that their day-to-day jobs often do not involve extensive social interactions. As a group, programmers also have much
higher than average scores in Openness, a function of their high degree of intellectual curiosity and their willingness to
experiment. Programmers also typically are not high scorers in Assertiveness or Conscientiousness, and have lower than
average scores in Stability"


So for all of those tests, when the question is regarding things like

"you like imagining things."

I always go to the extreme and put "Always True" or "Always False".

I did that because as the description clearly states programmers are open to new ideas, etc, and I also clearly see that this is a "good" trait. So why not go extreme?

For things like Introvertedness, even though a programmer is considered introverted, I did not go extreme on these areas because these are "bad" traits.
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  #16  
Old 08-03-2017, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ichbinnreine View Post
That argument is BS
It's hard to disagree with the logic and facts you present, since there are none.
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  #17  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kingofants View Post
I'm not sure if anyone has any experience with these pre-employment tests as I have never been given one when I interviewed for actuarial roles.

But for the passed few months I've been applying to programming roles, and so I've taken 5 of those pre-employment tests and I never got any further.

Now, there are two parts to these tests.

1. Apptitude: 50 questions, 15 minutes.

2. Personality: 140 questions e.g. Always True, Mostly True, Neither, Most False, Always false.

They are given by the company Criteria.

https://www.criteriacorp.com/solutio...coreReport.pdf

Above is a sample report for the aptitude tests.

https://www.criteriacorp.com/solutio...coreReport.pdf

Above is a sample report for the personality tests.




Now I need to know why I'm not passing these tests.

In the aptitude part, they are only looking for people who score in the 23-40 range, for programmers. I'm pretty confident that on average I've scored in the ~35 range, which is well within that range.

And I've taken several aptitude tests for other applications that do no involve the personality tests and I've passed all of those tests. The aptitude tests are different from the one I describe above but they measure the same things.



So my conclusion is that I'm failing those personality tests.

Does anyone know how they grade those tests? After much research, all I got is that they look for consistency because they ask the same questions over and over again worded differently. I think I followed that rule.

Not only have I failed these personality tests in the passed few months looking for coding positions but years back I'd taken similar tests for roles such as bank tellers, etc, and also never made it passed.
Dude, you can't fail a personality test. It just isn't that kind of test. Get a grip.

I've interviewed at companies that give such tests as part of their screening. Usually it's an MBTI or a stripped-down MMPI-2 clone. Sometimes there's an IQ test as well, and if there's an "aptitude" test, it's usually a DISC/RIASEC/Kuder type test.

And guess what--they're all BS when it comes to employment screening. They just don't show what HR drones think they show.

So if a place is seriously using an MBTI or an aptitude test result as a reason not to hire you, then you should thank them. Clearly you've dodged a bullet.
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  #18  
Old 08-03-2017, 10:13 PM
dudenarecht dudenarecht is offline
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Originally Posted by ichbinnreine View Post
That argument is BS
What is the relevance of knowing someone's credit rating for a job that doesn't deal directly with money?
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  #19  
Old 08-03-2017, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dudenarecht View Post
What is the relevance of knowing someone's credit rating for a job that doesn't deal directly with money?
Well, we're the ones who use credit score to price insurance policies.
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Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
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  #20  
Old 08-04-2017, 12:46 AM
AbedNadir AbedNadir is offline
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A friend does high level exec recruiter in PE and consulting firms. He had a hiring company where the guy hiring was just the stereotype of a arrogant Wall Street prick (aWSp). My friend is like "Oh, and we do this psych test for personality fit blah blah blah, that's just an added service that we do", and the aWSp responded with "OK, whatever, but I don't give a crap about any of that, just find somebody that can do (what we just talked about)". Then they talked about other stuff, and he finally came back to it and aWSp said "You know what, on the psych test, go ahead and tell them they have to take it; if they're willing to take some BS test, you can just cross them off the list, f em"

Probably not helpful to your questions, sorry ants, not a lot of experience here.
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Maybe, if there were some magical 4th dimension where they did their work in hypercubicles. Otherwise, I don't see them.
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