Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Professional Surveys
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


Not looking for a job? Tell us about your ideal job,
and we'll only contact you when it opens up.
https://www.dwsimpson.com/register


View Poll Results: Total Travel, Calculus to FSA/FCAS
16+ years 29 31.87%
14-15 years 7 7.69%
13 years 2 2.20%
12 years 5 5.49%
11 years 3 3.30%
10 years 5 5.49%
9 years 6 6.59%
8 years 4 4.40%
7 years 0 0%
6 years 5 5.49%
5 years 2 2.20%
4 years 2 2.20%
3 years or less 1 1.10%
42 weeks or I wanna see the numbers 20 21.98%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-30-2007, 11:57 AM
kazh's Avatar
kazh kazh is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: a long nap
Favorite beer: A & W Root
Posts: 5,071
Question Travel Time: Calculus to FSA/FCAS

Counting from your first day of college calculus, how many years did it take to finish your FSA or FCAS (whichever came first). If you took AP calculus in high school, the first day of that class counts. If you skipped years in the middle, that's a personal problem -- those count, too.
__________________
awake again
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-30-2007, 12:05 PM
JMO's Avatar
JMO JMO is offline
Carol Marler
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Back home again in Indiana
Studying for Nothing actuarial.
Posts: 37,660
Default

Sorry, I don't think I want to vote. I belong to the career changer category, which means I didn't start taking exams until several years after I graduated from college.
__________________
Carol Marler, "Just My Opinion"

Pluto is no longer a planet and I am no longer an actuary. Please take my opinions as non-actuarial.


My latest favorite quotes, updated Nov. 20, 2018.

Spoiler:
I should keep these four permanently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekrap View Post
JMO is right
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbell View Post
I agree with JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
And def agree w/ JMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG View Post
This. And everything else JMO wrote.
And this all purpose permanent quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Yup, it is always someone else's fault.
MORE:
All purpose response for careers forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorNo View Post
Depends upon the employer and the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Actuario View Post
Therapists should ask the right questions, not give the right answers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sredni Vashtar View Post
I feel like ERM is 90% buzzwords, and that the underlying agenda is to make sure at least one of your Corporate Officers is not dumb.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-30-2007, 12:32 PM
kazh's Avatar
kazh kazh is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: a long nap
Favorite beer: A & W Root
Posts: 5,071
Question travel truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMO View Post
Sorry, I don't think I want to vote. I belong to the career changer category, which means I didn't start taking exams until several years after I graduated from college.
Neither did I. But credit for Part 1 was given for GRE, whose calculus was based upon my last year of high school, which started 10 years before I got credit for the first actuarial exam I actually sat for. Military & mission split college graduation from my first actuarial job.

Travel time is not well-defined. So this poll stretches back to the earliest prep that directly led to FSA/FCAS for those on the AO. That assumes nobody here (except AL or Brad Gile?) remembers English (or French) as the first SoA exam (discontinued 1960).
__________________
awake again

Last edited by kazh; 05-30-2007 at 05:51 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-30-2007, 12:58 PM
JAS's Avatar
JAS JAS is offline
Deceased
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 10,001
Default

I don't even have my ACAS but I can already answer this poll.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-30-2007, 01:13 PM
atomic's Avatar
atomic atomic is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazh View Post
Travel time is not well-defined. So this poll stretches back to the earliest prep that might have directly led to FSA/FCAS for those on the AO. That assumes nobody still here (except maybe Brad Gile?) remembers English (or French) as the first SoA exam (discontinued 1960).

Nevertheless your measure is still not very meaningful. Why did you choose calculus? Most everyone either takes it in high school or as an undergraduate in college, so you might as well say age at Fellowship minus 18. Why not say "first exposure to mathematics" instead? After all, your reasoning for calculus being the "earliest prep that might have led directly to FSA/FCAS" is a bit strange, since indeed the technically correct answer would be the first exposure to mathematics.

The problem is you're trying to measure something that is influenced by more than one factor. The data is not only censored, it also has the property that withdrawals and reentries can occur at any time. Candidates have different reasons why their travel time may be longer or shorter than "usual." For instance, one has career changers versus individuals who started exams in college. In this context, the measure that makes the most sense is time from first exam sitting to Fellowship.

But then you have people on maternity leave, or taking sabbaticals, military service, etc. You also have people who suffered under (multiple?) E&E transitions. You have extenuating circumstances that make time to Fellowship a nebulous concept, at which point you need to ask yourself in what way is such a measure to be applied. To what end is the distribution of values used? What kinds of conclusions are you seeking to make from the data gathered?

This question about travel time gets asked a LOT around here. And I think it's symptomatic of a quantitative mindset that has placed too much faith in the certainty of the collection and measurement of empirical data. People like to talk (or boast or complain) about how long it takes to attain Fellowship, when it's not even a precise question with a single numerical answer. And that sort of navel-gazing speculation is rather useless in the context of the reality of one's own progress.
__________________
Spoiler:
"No, Moslems don't believe Jesus was the messiah.

Think of it like a movie. The Torah is the first one, and the New Testament is the sequel. Then the Qu'ran comes out, and it retcons the last one like it never happened. There's still Jesus, but he's not the main character anymore, and the messiah hasn't shown up yet.

Jews like the first movie but ignored the sequels, Christians think you need to watch the first two, but the third movie doesn't count, Moslems think the third one was the best, and Mormons liked the second one so much they started writing fanfiction that doesn't fit with ANY of the series canon."

-RandomFerret
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-30-2007, 01:30 PM
satogaeru's Avatar
satogaeru satogaeru is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,161
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Another Student View Post
I don't even have my ACAS but I can already answer this poll.
Me too.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-30-2007, 02:07 PM
Take 2's Avatar
Take 2 Take 2 is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: second estate
Favorite beer: Hires Root
Posts: 5,082
Default

Calculus was Part 1 when I started exams. I learned most of that in my high school AP Calculus class. Poll basis seems fair to me.
__________________
there is no situation so bad that
getting upset won't make it worse
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-30-2007, 02:11 PM
JMO Fan's Avatar
JMO Fan JMO Fan is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: out in the woods
Favorite beer: Frostop Root
Posts: 5,078
Default

Two of my kids asked me how long I studied to become an actuary. When I said "30 years", they objected, "No, not how old, how many years?" I explained that 12 years of public school, 5+ college, and 12+ actuarial exams added up to about 30.

Maybe I overstated my case. Those two avoided college, barely finished high school. They didn't like math to begin with.
__________________
I thought this WAS a real job

Last edited by JMO Fan; 05-30-2007 at 05:34 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-30-2007, 02:19 PM
kazh's Avatar
kazh kazh is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: a long nap
Favorite beer: A & W Root
Posts: 5,071
Cool measure, mesher, monsieur

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic View Post
Nevertheless your measure is still not very meaningful. Why did you choose calculus? Most everyone either takes it in high school or as an undergraduate in college, so you might as well say age at Fellowship minus 18. Why not say "first exposure to mathematics" instead? After all, your reasoning for calculus being the "earliest prep that might have led directly to FSA/FCAS" is a bit strange, since indeed the technically correct answer would be the first exposure to mathematics.

The problem is you're trying to measure something that is influenced by more than one factor. The data is not only censored, it also has the property that withdrawals and reentries can occur at any time. Candidates have different reasons why their travel time may be longer or shorter than "usual." For instance, one has career changers versus individuals who started exams in college. In this context, the measure that makes the most sense is time from first exam sitting to Fellowship.

But then you have people on maternity leave, or taking sabbaticals, military service, etc. You also have people who suffered under (multiple?) E&E transitions. You have extenuating circumstances that make time to Fellowship a nebulous concept, at which point you need to ask yourself in what way is such a measure to be applied. To what end is the distribution of values used? What kinds of conclusions are you seeking to make from the data gathered?

This question about travel time gets asked a LOT around here. And I think it's symptomatic of a quantitative mindset that has placed too much faith in the certainty of the collection and measurement of empirical data. People like to talk (or boast or complain) about how long it takes to attain Fellowship, when it's not even a precise question with a single numerical answer. And that sort of navel-gazing speculation is rather useless in the context of the reality of one's own progress.

I'm glad you got the real point. Comparisons to other individuals, or even to supposed statistical 'norms', have limited value at best. What's important is whether you are doing your best.

The survey is just to generate interest among the number-hungry.
__________________
awake again
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-30-2007, 05:43 PM
JMO Fan's Avatar
JMO Fan JMO Fan is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: out in the woods
Favorite beer: Frostop Root
Posts: 5,078
Default

The youngest FSA, Rudy Veerjee at 20 (FSA 1980), started calculus early, went quickly through exams. Others make other choices, some good, some less good. The concern with travel time is justified, but an imprecise measure.

The focus should be on whether passing all the exams takes too long relative to their value in proving qualification as actuaries. There may be many ways to measure that. This poll is interesting, but the question too one-sided to produce a very good measure.

Considered with kazh's other polls, it might be helpful. It might be impossible to have one "best" measurement. For example, it's pretty tough to measure with career changers, those who take time off between exams, or those who study inconsistently.
__________________
I thought this WAS a real job

Last edited by JMO Fan; 06-01-2007 at 04:29 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.32561 seconds with 12 queries