Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions

DW Simpson
Actuarial Jobs

Visit our site for the most up to date jobs for actuaries.

Actuarial Salary Surveys
Property & Casualty, Health, Life, Pension and Non-Tradtional Jobs.

Actuarial Meeting Schedule
Browse this year's meetings and which recruiters will attend.

Contact DW Simpson
Have a question?
Let's talk.
You'll be glad you did.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:14 PM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 49,976
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hello, My Baby View Post
Careers used to be fun imo
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:16 PM
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 30,010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
US News has them in the $78K to $129K range, while actuaries are at $75K to $141K.
I can't say that I'm an expert, so I'll accept these as reasonable numbers - dunno.

I think one thing that makes it hard to compare is the credentialing process results in a much lower dispersion for actuaries than for other fields, including SEs. Actuaries that are 2-3 years out of their bachelors will make maybe $80k* average, with a low end of $60k and a high end of $110k. SEs will make the same $80k average, but the very best of them were hired by Google and started at $200k+equity, moving up from there. Nobody's paying that for EL actuaries (maybe they should: I have consistently said that companies don't pay enough for the best talent in this field and - mostly as a result of exams - overpay for weak talent).



*just picked numbers, I didn't check DWS or anything
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:31 PM
Dr T Non-Fan Dr T Non-Fan is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Just outside of Nowhere
Posts: 98,671
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
I can't say that I'm an expert, so I'll accept these as reasonable numbers - dunno.

I think one thing that makes it hard to compare is the credentialing process results in a much lower dispersion for actuaries than for other fields, including SEs....
Actuaries are spread around less than those in other fields??
__________________
"Facebook is a toilet." -- LWTwJO

"45 es un titere" -- Seal of The President of The United States of America protest art
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:36 PM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 49,976
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Actuaries are spread around less than those in other fields??
I would think so. Then again this could vary depending on who you think is and isn't a software engineer and who is and isn't an actuary. There are insanely rich founders of tech companies that are software engineers but you don't really see that with many actuaries. Then again by the time those founders are rich they're doing things other than engineering on a day-to-day basis.

And, I think a lot of these stats are unreliable as once you get to a certain income level, your title tends to change. I'm not sure if the stats are capturing the transition from say, software engineer to architect or actuary to head of pricing, or whatever.
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:55 PM
Hello, My Baby's Avatar
Hello, My Baby Hello, My Baby is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Life View Post
this job is overrated af.


Actuarial is a backwater
__________________
Your/Your

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena Lake View Post
Yes, well, that's partially the result of my robust education. I was exposed to far more than a narrow money-making selection of classes. The influence of art, literature, and other liberal arts makes it easier for me to write coherently in a format significantly longer than 140 characters. Additionally, I am able to use colorful terms that illustrate my ideas, words that exceed two syllables in length, and even proper punctuation (most of the time).
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 08-15-2019, 03:04 PM
koudai8 koudai8 is offline
SOA
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nonlnear View Post
Agreed. That would have been a helpful qualifier.

And actually, it depends what you mean by fresh grad. Fresh undergrad, yes it's a nice starting number. Fresh grad degree it's warm at best.
Sorry about that. Should've be more clear.

She did actuarial for grad, but landed as a quant.

I feel there's not much of a distinction between undergrad and grad in terms of actuaries.

But even for a fresh grad, 130k (as a quant) isn't bad at all, in my opinion.
__________________
ASA ERM Mods
ILALPM ILALFM DMAC FAC
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 08-15-2019, 03:05 PM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 49,976
Default

MS in actuarial is a glorified second bachelors

And, a BS/BA in actuarial is a glorified test-prep program not unlike Kaplan or Princeton Review
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 08-15-2019, 03:11 PM
koudai8 koudai8 is offline
SOA
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
Will add to my previous reply: When Y2K was coming up , programmers were making a ton. Wasn't unusual to find young people bragging how amazing their jobs were - programmers with 2-3 years of experience making 50% more than an actuary they graduated with (and no studying). I suggested that after Y2K, they would see a lot of slack as companies took a breather from tech investment. Response was usually some version of "Yeah, eventually I'll have 50 recruiters chasing me instead of 100". Realty: The very best still had great jobs but a lot of people who had mediocre skills and the ability to negotiate that into something well-paying in 1997-99, did not have the programming skills and negotiation ability to leverage that into a great job, or any job, in 2001. Maybe that's what 2022 looks like, maybe not.



Would add that this

seems an odd way to think about the actuarial field, as the risk affects the employer, but there's no real direct risk for the actuary - rates go up, companies need actuaries; rates go down, companies need actuaries. The rest of the OP seems a little off to me as it appears to be focused on extreme cases rather than norms, but I don't know enough about the programming norms to say it's wrong.


I think I was simply thinking, that we manage the most complex products, and have to deal with multi-dimensional two-tailed risks. The two-sided nature of the risks will hinder the insurance companies, which will trickle down to how much they're paying actuaries, I think. Lastly, as people who manage those complex risks and design products, actuaries don't make much according to my few data points.
__________________
ASA ERM Mods
ILALPM ILALFM DMAC FAC
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-15-2019, 03:14 PM
koudai8 koudai8 is offline
SOA
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
MS in actuarial is a glorified second bachelors

And, a BS/BA in actuarial is a glorified test-prep program not unlike Kaplan or Princeton Review


Wouldn't say it's glorified
__________________
ASA ERM Mods
ILALPM ILALFM DMAC FAC
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 08-15-2019, 04:03 PM
Locrian Locrian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by koudai8 View Post
But even for a fresh grad, 130k (as a quant) isn't bad at all, in my opinion.
Used to see numbers much bigger than that. It's stabilized a lot.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
Stop having feelings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
Spoiler:
The most important thing I have learned from the career forum is that the gurus in this field and keepers of supreme knowledge regarding all matters pertaining to the actuarial profession are unlettered actuarial students with < 5 years of experience.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.25082 seconds with 11 queries