Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Exams - Please Limit Discussion to Exam-Related Topics > Exams - General
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


Fill in a brief DW Simpson Registration Form
to be contacted when new jobs meet your criteria.


Exams - General Sub-fora: CFA exams
Non-specific topics and complaint department

View Poll Results: Choose Wisely
85% Pass Rates bother me - period. 33 32.35%
85% pass rates only bother me if education suffers 48 47.06%
85% pass rates don't bother me at all 11 10.78%
42% pass rates!! 10 9.80%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #231  
Old 06-13-2007, 01:51 PM
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I don't see any point in continuing this discussion.

If you feel finding bad questions is proof that you need to memorize every little footnote or you won't get through I'm not going to change your mind. Nor do I really care if I don't.

I do know I'm not very good at memorization and I managed to pass all the exams.

There has to be some reason that some people pass exams and others don't. Are you claiming I have a very good memory and that is why I got through? Otherwise it's not possible.

P.S. That does look like a pretty poorly written exam on the few pages I did look at. But I still think that anyone who mastered the material could get through it.
I personally was correct everytime I left an exam on my gut feeling if I passed or not (except 7 the 2nd time, I wasn't sure either way).
I also felt I passed when I 'knew' the material and failed when I didn't.
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old 06-13-2007, 01:52 PM
ReserveRage ReserveRage is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,732
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by notreallyme View Post
Found it #14)
Don't think I'd get credit.

2 elements of risk: Timing and Severity?

Loss Exposure - That is tough (it's hard not to use the words to define the meaning)
A count of the items that may encouter a loss during the specified period. (OK so I get 0 )

4 dimensions of a loss exposure.
Size
Probability of Loss
Variance of Loss
Time exposed
I agree you would get very little credit.
2 elements of risk: uncertain outcome and possibility of loss.
loss exposure - any condition or situation which presents possibility of loss whether or not a loss occurs, (maybe they'd except your answer)
4 dimensions of loss exposure: (frequency, severity, total dollar losses, timing) maybe you'd get 1/4 credit?

Even though I think your answers are reasonable, they are not Wiening's answers and because you didn't memorize his answers, you are penalized. There are plenty more questions like this on Exam 5.
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old 06-13-2007, 01:56 PM
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReserveRage View Post
http://www.casact.org/admissions/stu...am5/Sp07-5.pdf

14-17, 20-21, 23-27, 29, 30, 32, 35, 38, 39, 44

almost all rely entirely on memorization of some kind, IMO. You will see many questions that specifically reference a paper or author.
What do you expect them ask?

Define a contract of adhesion to you is wrote memorization

State the purpose of a second-injury fund? Provide an example.

Identify the loss exposure covered by a GL policy? You don't think that is a fair question? Or is all memorization?

WOW! I'll go now.
Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old 06-13-2007, 01:59 PM
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReserveRage View Post
I agree you would get very little credit.
2 elements of risk: uncertain outcome and possibility of loss.
loss exposure - any condition or situation which presents possibility of loss whether or not a loss occurs, (maybe they'd except your answer)
4 dimensions of loss exposure: (frequency, severity, total dollar losses, timing) maybe you'd get 1/4 credit?

Even though I think your answers are reasonable, they are not Wiening's answers and because you didn't memorize his answers, you are penalized. There are plenty more questions like this on Exam 5.
I'd get at least 3/4 credit on 4.

And all 4 are pretty obvious. If it is something you just studied should be a easy 2.5 points.

I bet I'd get 1.5 to 2 total. (I have never been a grader) and I don't even know who Weining is. I certainly didn't memorize his stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old 06-13-2007, 02:03 PM
ReserveRage ReserveRage is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,732
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by notreallyme View Post
If you feel finding bad questions is proof that you need to memorize every little footnote or you won't get through I'm not going to change your mind. Nor do I really care if I don't.

There has to be some reason that some people pass exams and others don't. Are you claiming I have a very good memory and that is why I got through? Otherwise it's not possible.

P.S. That does look like a pretty poorly written exam on the few pages I did look at. But I still think that anyone who mastered the material could get through it.
I also felt I passed when I 'knew' the material and failed when I didn't.
No, I don't think you need to memorize every footnote to pass. There is enough material on these exams for 1000's of potential questions of which they will ask 40-50. Even though some concepts are tested every sitting, there are many points that come from obscure areas that haven't been tested in 10+ years if ever (e.g. Harwayne). The more you memorize the higher the probability that you'll know every one of those 40-50 questions. Given the pass mark is 60-70%, you obviously don't need to do this but there are many other ways to quickly lose points through dumb mistakes, misreading questions, making errors due to time constraints, exhaustion, etc. and to take the attitude that you'll skip whole sections/readings is asking for a 5.

I don't know your definition of mastering material, but mine would be to have every important fact/concept/algorithm/procedure/equation learned and memorized. Even skipping Feldblum's awful footnotes, this still equates to 100's of detailed note cards. I never once needed to use notecards in any of the preliminary exams, so yes, I contend you certainly did memorize a lot to get through the exams, esp. Exam 7. If call that learning the material instead, that's fine. It's still memorization in my mind.
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old 06-13-2007, 02:10 PM
ReserveRage ReserveRage is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,732
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by notreallyme View Post
What do you expect them ask?

Define a contract of adhesion to you is wrote memorization

State the purpose of a second-injury fund? Provide an example.

Identify the loss exposure covered by a GL policy? You don't think that is a fair question? Or is all memorization?
.
I would expect them to ask questions more like #22 which in my mind tests understanding much more than any specific defintiion.

How can you say any "define" question isn't a memorization question? Contract of Adhesion was located in one part of the syllabus. You either read those few sentences and memorized the definition or you didn't. There's no in-between..you can't use intelligence or understanding of other areas to help you solve that question.

I never said these questions weren't fair. I'm simply arguing that it's ludicrous to believe you can answer these questions based on your understanding of the big picture. These are very specific details that you either read and retained (ie. memorized) or you didn't. I had no idea what the 2nd injury fund was because I flew through that reading only once and didn't make a note card for it. If I had put it on my notecards, I'd have answered the question correclty. That to me is the epitome of a route memorization question.
Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old 06-13-2007, 02:35 PM
Gandalf's Avatar
Gandalf Gandalf is offline
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
SOA
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 30,984
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReserveRage View Post
How can you say any "define" question isn't a memorization question? Contract of Adhesion was located in one part of the syllabus. You either read those few sentences and memorized the definition or you didn't. There's no in-between..you can't use intelligence or understanding of other areas to help you solve that question.

I never said these questions weren't fair. I'm simply arguing that it's ludicrous to believe you can answer these questions based on your understanding of the big picture. These are very specific details that you either read and retained (ie. memorized) or you didn't. I had no idea what the 2nd injury fund was because I flew through that reading only once and didn't make a note card for it. If I had put it on my notecards, I'd have answered the question correclty. That to me is the epitome of a route memorization question.
I have no idea what your reading were or exactly what mine were when I took the exam that covered contracts 30 years ago, but I still understand why a life insurance contract is a contract of adhesion. I happen to remember the name (maybe seeing it jogged my memory). In the context of what we studied then, it was an important conceptual difference: "take it or leave it contracts" vs contracts where wording was subject to negotiation. (At least, I'm pretty sure that's what the term means). If I hadn't known then why it mattered (the concept, not the name), I surely wouldn't remember now what it means.

Memorized vs learned vs understood: rather a blurred distinction.

2nd injury fund? I have no idea if I ever memorized, learned, or understood it. It's not a term I remember.
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old 06-13-2007, 03:54 PM
Colymbosathon ecplecticos's Avatar
Colymbosathon ecplecticos Colymbosathon ecplecticos is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,969
Default

As usual Gandalf was right; this time about contracts of adhesion.

2nd injury fund is a work comp concept.

1) In work comp, the employer's rate depends on his losses.

2) A worker, say, loses an eye. This is a very bad injury (say $5,000), but not nearly as bad as losing a second eye (say, $100,000).

Combining 1) and 2) would lead to the bad result that an injured worker would become unemployable because of fear that he would get hurt again.

Hence, second injury funds. If a previously injured worker is hurt again, the additional cost ($95,000) of the second injury is borne by the fund not the current employer.
Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old 06-13-2007, 04:02 PM
atomic's Avatar
atomic atomic is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colymbosathon ecplecticos View Post
2) A worker, say, loses an eye. This is a very bad injury (say $5,000), but not nearly as bad as losing a second eye (say, $100,000).
"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!"
__________________
Spoiler:
"No, Moslems don't believe Jesus was the messiah.

Think of it like a movie. The Torah is the first one, and the New Testament is the sequel. Then the Qu'ran comes out, and it retcons the last one like it never happened. There's still Jesus, but he's not the main character anymore, and the messiah hasn't shown up yet.

Jews like the first movie but ignored the sequels, Christians think you need to watch the first two, but the third movie doesn't count, Moslems think the third one was the best, and Mormons liked the second one so much they started writing fanfiction that doesn't fit with ANY of the series canon."

-RandomFerret
Reply With Quote
  #240  
Old 06-13-2007, 04:09 PM
DoctorNo's Avatar
DoctorNo DoctorNo is online now
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Denver, CO
College: Western Washington, Colorado-Boulder
Posts: 13,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic View Post
"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!"
RN.
__________________
The opinions of Doctor No do not necessarily represent the opinions of mathematicians or consulting actuaries. Facts cited by Doctor No are not necessarily facts. Find me on Twitter: @NorrisDoug. If you send me a LinkedIn invitation, please let me know who you are (unless it's obvious how I know you).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.55092 seconds with 10 queries