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  #31  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:10 PM
TZK TZK is offline
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Originally Posted by Nimue View Post
Maybe she wanted you to be able to think faster than you could talk, instead of having those jarring pauses every few seconds. Oh and you got your first job based on family connections. Congratulations.
No one creates logical arguments faster than they can talk.

You are referring to the skill of bullshitting, whereby you sound knowledgeable about something but your argument has no logical value and you really have no clue what you are talking about. Anyone can do that.
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  #32  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:13 PM
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No one creates logical arguments faster than they can talk.

You are referring to the skill of bullshitting, whereby you sound knowledgeable about something but your argument has no logical value and you really have no clue what you are talking about. Anyone can do that.
It also makes sense to take your time to think in one pause prior to speaking, rather than several whilst speaking.
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  #33  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:14 PM
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No one creates logical arguments faster than they can talk.

You are referring to the skill of bullshitting, whereby you sound knowledgeable about something but your argument has no logical value and you really have no clue what you are talking about. Anyone can do that.
Apparently you couldn't.
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  #34  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:20 PM
Wesley_Willis Wesley_Willis is offline
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Originally Posted by glassjaws View Post
Should I make the post red? Or do I need to add more pictures?
Have you read TZK's voluminous and largely incoherent discourses on sarcasm in NAT?

As soon as I saw the subject of this thread, I knew we were in for a treat.
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  #35  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:23 PM
TZK TZK is offline
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For public presentations, care to wager how much of the effectiveness is content and how much is delivery?
Depends on your criteria for success. Plus, delivery is not really a question here. It is on the difference between an argument that sounds good, using fallacious reasoning, and an argument that sounds good because it is good (logically). Most people can't tell the difference immediately, but then when they go to apply the information they run into problems when it was just something someone came up with to sound good.

To use something I argued about before, consider Stephen Covey's claims about Win/Lose relationships and comparing it to a system of detecting deception. It rings true to everyone that you should avoid relationships where people use you (Lose/Win), but in practice people only participate in these when they are deceived into believing it is a (Win/Win) relationship. Thus the real issue is how to detect deception. I could spew something similar to "Avoid those Lose/Win relationships" with a few seconds notice, but it wouldn't help anyone.


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Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post
I would recommend developing the ability to relate to all types of people. I have a collection of friends who are along the lines of what you call "system thinkers" and who are very engaging intellectually. I do not necessarily expect this of my coworkers...or the grocery clerk, or my mail lady, etc. However, I do get along with these people swimmingly. I assume they can pick up on the fact I respect them and don't try to use a 10 minute conversation to expose the triviality of their world view. Guess what? You can also do this without compromising your intellectual integrity.

It sounds like your approach to interviewing, may be better suited for either:
(a) A conversation over beers with a couple smart friends
(b) Cross-examining a murder suspect.
And at some point you no doubt learned that just because you don't already know everything and therefore could be wrong about something doesn't mean you are worthless - as system thinkers do early on. Thus you have the self confidence to be around such people without feeling like your world view is trivial.

This is the relationship that I create with anyone that is around me for any period of time and comes to understand the nature of a personality like mine. However in the first 10 minutes, when I am the first such person they have encountered they feel so challenged regardless of what I do.

The underlying argument here is that objective truth is determined through the confrontation of ideas. Thus by disagreeing with something that someone says, I have no other motivation than to unveil the truth be that what it may.

Most people are not on your level.

Last edited by TZK; 04-24-2008 at 12:28 PM..
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  #36  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:23 PM
Kabaka Kabaka is offline
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Have you read TZK's voluminous and largely incoherent discourses on sarcasm in NAT?

As soon as I saw the subject of this thread, I knew we were in for a treat.
Absolutely. The afternoon is shaping up nicely.
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  #37  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Wesley_Willis View Post
Have you read TZK's voluminous and largely incoherent discourses on sarcasm in NAT?

As soon as I saw the subject of this thread, I knew we were in for a treat.
No, I've missed the wonder that is TZK psotings until now. But, I must say, my simple mind is amused.
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  #38  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by glassjaws View Post
It also makes sense to take your time to think in one pause prior to speaking, rather than several whilst speaking.
Which is what I did...

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Originally Posted by MooBeay View Post
Apparently you couldn't.
Apparently I don't bullshit you mean. It is immoral to try and convince people of things that you are not certain of yourself.
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  #39  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:31 PM
TZK TZK is offline
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Originally Posted by Quasi View Post
douche bag
If you actually believed you were justified in name-calling, you would just present the justification instead. You didn't, which means you don't believe you have a real argument, and why should anyone listen to you when you don't even believe yourself?
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  #40  
Old 04-24-2008, 12:33 PM
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Which is what I did...
O rly? Your initial post states:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TZK
Every few seconds I would stop to think
Wow, you really do formulate all your thoughts initially and then go on to verbalize them. I just didn't know that stopping every few seconds amounted to this.
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