Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


Upload your resume securely at https://www.dwsimpson.com
to be contacted when new jobs meet your skills and objectives.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #31  
Old 12-10-2017, 11:39 AM
Masked Avenger's Avatar
Masked Avenger Masked Avenger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 864
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
That's not it at all. I am interested in technical projects because I see them as being more innovative and creative than regular actuarial work. You know how people say, if you don't want your boss's job, you shouldn't want your job? Well, when I look at VPs of actuarial departments, I see them working on things like reserving, or rate filings, or large account pricing, or whatever. I see them spending more time doing repetitive work rather than trying to invent automated solutions so they don't have to do that kind of work anymore.

I like automation because it's not repetitive. There's always something new.
I donít know...Iím sure part of the reason my bossses like their jobs is that they get paid a lot more even if they do the same stupid bullshit. There is some merit to the advice that you shouldnít let your job define you as a person. Maybe there are more worthwhile pursuits outside of work.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-10-2017, 11:48 AM
MathStatFin's Avatar
MathStatFin MathStatFin is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,591
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
That's actually true. When I was growing up, I spent my school hours trying to beat people at school. Then, after school I was shuffled around various ECs where I spent my time trying to beat other people at those ECs. You can say I spent my entire first two decades of life trying to beat somebody at something. The need to win was really drilled into my head by myself and everyone around me. Failure was unacceptable.

I guess whatever level you're at, there's always going to be someone better. So I suppose it's an attitude that I would need to let go of if I want to find happiness. Or, maybe I can pick an arbitrary income and seniority level and decide that's where I want to settle.
Interesting. So you're a competitive person who likes technology and you want to make big bucks? Don't you live in Chicago? Have you thought about working for one of the trading shops? As an example:

http://www.jumptrading.com/apply.html?gh_jid=938132

Last edited by MathStatFin; 12-10-2017 at 12:01 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-10-2017, 12:03 PM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 46,577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathStatFin View Post
Interesting. So you're a competitive person who likes technology and you want to make big bucks? Don't you live in Chicago? Have you thought about working for one of the trading shops?
I thought about it. But I'm not really sure traders do anything but figure out how to make money from trading. That's a big turn off to me. Or maybe they really do make markets more efficient and liquid, but that still just doesn't seem satisfying as I think very few traders go into trading with the motivation of making markets more efficient.

I could be wrong about this, a compelling argument could change my mind.
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-10-2017, 12:11 PM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 46,577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathStatFin View Post
That seems like the perfect job for someone who works for comcast but is fed up with comcast
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-10-2017, 12:13 PM
MathStatFin's Avatar
MathStatFin MathStatFin is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,591
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
I thought about it. But I'm not really sure traders do anything but figure out how to make money from trading. That's a big turn off to me. Or maybe they really do make markets more efficient and liquid, but that still just doesn't seem satisfying as I think very few traders go into trading with the motivation of making markets more efficient.

I could be wrong about this, a compelling argument could change my mind.
tautology.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-10-2017, 12:20 PM
MathStatFin's Avatar
MathStatFin MathStatFin is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,591
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
Yeah which is why GT appeals to me. Seems like a big win if I can get in.
Of course you're going to get in. I'm just wondering why you considered Berkeley when they don't even offer a part-time online masters in computer science.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-10-2017, 12:22 PM
jas66Kent jas66Kent is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Favorite beer: Corona :)
Posts: 22,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathStatFin View Post
Of course you're going to get in. I'm just wondering why you considered Berkeley when they don't even offer a part-time online masters in computer science.
Prestige of school. For CS, its always about that.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-10-2017, 02:19 PM
whoanonstop's Avatar
whoanonstop whoanonstop is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Studying for Spark / Scala
College: College of William and Mary
Favorite beer: Orange Juice
Posts: 5,720
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
AI seems to be even hotter than data science. 300k - 500k seems to be the going rate for an entry level AI specialist, but I think that's for people with PhDs in the field.

A PhD is just going to be impractical, but I've been considering a masters. What opportunities would there be then? Or now? I don't need 500k (yet). Heck, I'd even do it for the well below market rate of 200k or even 150k just to get my foot in the door. A buddy of mine who recently got his fellowship quit his job to go back to school to get in, and he was already making good money as an actuary.
What bothers me most about this post is how much it focuses on compensation rather than stating any reason why you'd be interested in this type of work. People who are top-notch in AI and receive these type of salaries are extremely passionate about the work they do. They aren't just random passer-bys that want to get a cut of the $$$; the obsession with the subject came first and it will be impossibly steep for you to get into that mindset with the way you seem to be approaching this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
"AI" used to encompass a lot of things, many of which you already do. Lately it seems synonymous with deep learning - is that how you're using it here?
What I've most seen is that Deep Learning is a subset of Machine Learning which is a subset of AI. However, that is most likely due to the multiple infographics diluting reality. To me, AI feels closer to Reinforcement Learning than anything else, but of course, those systems can be implemented with a deep structure. With that being said, AI throws out a much larger net than any of the other buzzy terminology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMO View Post
I don't know why you think people on this board would know more about the question than you do.
I don't think he is going to find an online board that is more focused on cost-benefit analysis of a scenario like this. This seems more of a: I have X% chance to make Y thousands, should I invest Z thousands to get there? As for any specifics on AI, feedback is definitely constrained to a very small subset of AO'ers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
I come from commercial insurance, which is in the stone ages compared to where personal lines is when it comes to technology. I figure since a lot of pl actuaries are here, they'd have more exposure to no-touch claims and underwriting tech.
That is awfully optimistic. Actuaries or Actuaries with Data Scientist titles will not be the ones working on AI, even if they say so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathStatFin View Post
I think it would be better to focus on applications of AI in the insurance world and establish yourself as a domain expert.
Definitely best chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathStatFin View Post
I'm just wondering why you're considering computer science instead of statistics.

From an academic point of view, "AI" usually refers to specific topics within computer science like deep learning, robotics, computer vision, etc. It's not something that you will be doing in a stats department (as far as I can tell).
I think if he is 100% set on AI, it makes sense to do computer science. I don't think online masters are going to get him where he wants to be though. The AI in his head is too myopic, it is taking a greedy approach in getting $$$ early. If you love AI, you go to a top-notch PhD program and you sacrifice money early on for that interest and the money naturally follows later on (as long as you're decent at what you do).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Life View Post
All you do is talk about stats and machine learning and then complain about your low salary. You should try to get a masters and change career or shut up.
Yep, jump off the boat and take a risk or just let it go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas66Kent View Post
He's never going to get anywhere near those salaries ($300K+) without a Ph. D

A Masters is quite simply not enough when you are competing at that level.
It isn't impossible, but I agree that it will be extremely difficult for him at the "Research AI" level to even get a foot in the door.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
I just want to work on something cool, and innovative. Whether that happens to deal with computer vision or robotics isn't too much of a concern for me, as I think they are both cool and innovative. Likewise with AI/Machine learning/statistical learning.
This needs to be the start of your first post and you need to elaborate more on the specifics that excite you within those fields rather than just throwing out "oh XXXXX looks cool and innovating!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas66Kent View Post
It's a common problem when you have parents with very high standards.

If you are not careful, this attitude will be detrimental to your ability to make meaningful work place relationships, which is the key to moving up in an organisation (much more so than simple raw intelligence).
Some heartfelt advice from jas that I agree with. Getting rid of this attitude will benefit you immensely especially if you somehow get a real job in AI.

-Riley
__________________
It is impossible to have a professional forum where the majority of your professionals are anonymous.

Map of Actuarial Hiring Companies
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-10-2017, 02:42 PM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 46,577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoanonstop View Post
This needs to be the start of your first post and you need to elaborate more on the specifics that excite you within those fields rather than just throwing out "oh XXXXX looks cool and innovating!"
This is going to sound vague, but at the end of the day what I want to do is solve problems. And, in the process of solving those problems, I would like to solve them as elegantly as possible.

I think AI, or whatever you want to call it, has the potential to solve a lot of problems. When I was in school, I never really thought about pursuing it as a career because I thought its applications wouldn't occur until much later. At the time, there weren't really a lot of jobs in that area. Nowadays, it's exploding.

Now, the most interesting thing about AI is that it's not so much a study of how to make robots do what humans can do, because that's not it at all. The study of AI is the study of intelligence itself, and not just human intelligence, but intelligence in general. I think just reading about it for an hour can turn a gloomy day into a good day.

But, going back to the problem solving part - I don't really care too much about what you want to call these fields of study, as long as they can be used to make life simpler for human beings, or the struggle for existence just a little easier, I'd be happy - and it seems like industry is headed in the direction where AI will play a major role in solving those problems.
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-10-2017, 02:50 PM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 46,577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoanonstop View Post
It isn't impossible, but I agree that it will be extremely difficult for him at the "Research AI" level to even get a foot in the door.
That's not going to stop me from learning as much about it as I can. I don't plan on doing research AI. But that doesn't mean my job won't involve AI at all. I think even very ordinary people will be involved as AI increasingly makes its way into ordinary consumer products. For example, people with very average backgrounds in Amazon warehouses interact with robots all day long. The ones who take the effort to understand just a little bit about what those robots can do can further their careers and take supervisory roles over those robots rather than doing more manual warehouse tasks.

In that sense, even learning just a little bit about AI could pay off quite well in the sense that being aware of how to apply what other people have developed, and having a better understanding of the tools you are using, can help you in your day-to-day job. I wouldn't consider not being able to get "a real AI job" as a terrible failure. Even just getting a little better at my current job because I looked into it would be okay.
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.27818 seconds with 9 queries