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  #6801  
Old 01-10-2018, 01:38 PM
act_123 act_123 is online now
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I don't think that there is a barrier to entry.

I just think that the CAS might implicitly round the pass score based on the pass percentage.

Otherwise what is the point of the last meeting after Vegas with finalizing the pass mark?

It looks awfully suspicious that both exam 5 and 8 had a 40% pass percentage this sitting considering the vastly different pass marks (66% vs 70%). Especially when one can argue that the Exam 8 offered this past sitting was measurably harder than the past few sittings that had lower pass marks.
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  #6802  
Old 01-10-2018, 01:59 PM
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The CAS should decrease the inflow of new actuaries until we make more money than doctors Don't implement the changes until after I reach fellow tia.
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  #6803  
Old 01-10-2018, 04:57 PM
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PeppermintPatty PeppermintPatty is offline
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Originally Posted by act_123 View Post
I don't think that there is a barrier to entry.

I just think that the CAS might implicitly round the pass score based on the pass percentage.

Otherwise what is the point of the last meeting after Vegas with finalizing the pass mark?

It looks awfully suspicious that both exam 5 and 8 had a 40% pass percentage this sitting considering the vastly different pass marks (66% vs 70%). Especially when one can argue that the Exam 8 offered this past sitting was measurably harder than the past few sittings that had lower pass marks.
I don't doubt that they look at the pass rate, and I, personally, think they should give it more weight. I think it's hard to objectively measure "how hard was that exam", and I think the large number of candidates varies less in ability from sitting to sitting than the smaller number of item writers or graders vary from sitting to sitting.

That is, I think they should explicitly credibility weight "how well did the candidates do" with the MQC score, and give substantial weight to the candidate performance.

So I'm not disagreeing with you. I was surprised by statements like this one:
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Originally Posted by PensionPlan View Post
I don't think this debunks manipulation. I'm a firm believer that the CAS uses exams to control the flood gate of candidates. I guarantee you they were feeling more comfortable letting more FCAS through that round, or saw a ridiculous buildup up people stuck at the exam.
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  #6804  
Old 01-10-2018, 04:57 PM
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The CAS should decrease the inflow of new actuaries until we make more money than doctors Don't implement the changes until after I reach fellow tia.
Alas for us, unlike medical doctors, we don't have a legal monopoly.
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  #6805  
Old 01-10-2018, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
I don't doubt that they look at the pass rate, and I, personally, think they should give it more weight. I think it's hard to objectively measure "how hard was that exam", and I think the large number of candidates varies less in ability from sitting to sitting than the smaller number of item writers or graders vary from sitting to sitting.

That is, I think they should explicitly credibility weight "how well did the candidates do" with the MQC score, and give substantial weight to the candidate performance.
This might be the most reasonable exam pass rate related post that I've seen on AO.

You're supposed to be belligerent on these types of forums, do you even internet PeppermintPatty?
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  #6806  
Old 01-15-2018, 09:32 AM
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So wait, y'all think the CAS is setting passmarks to control the number of new newly credentialed actuaries? Really? Have you ever talked with anyone involved in the process?

I have been involved in the process in the past, and I can assure you that's not how it works. There was a stretch back around 2000 when Sholom Feldblum argued that the sheer number of exams was improperly limiting the number of candidates who were willing to even consider the field, and that we should dramatically reduce the barrier to entry so as get enough entry level folks in the door. But he lost the election, and while the passing percentages did go up a bit after that, he never got a huge amount of traction, because stodgy old actuaries were stuck on "you ought to demonstrate knowledge of a significant body of actuarial material to get credentialed."
I should clarify that I didn't mean "the CAS is setting the pass mark for each exam to ensure that no more than X individuals reach fellowship in a given year."

When I said "(the exams really are a barrier to entry to ensure our jobs remain valued)" I meant not only the fact that they're challenging to pass and most candidates won't pass a given exam, but as you mentioned that the sheer number of exams acts as a barrier to entry.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a barrier to entry, nor do I think there's anything wrong with a very difficult one. If the exams weren't hard enough, how would I differentiate myself in front of a potential employer from another candidate (who may be willing to embellish his own skillset). There are plenty of reasonably strong speakers out there who don't have technical skills (anyone working at a large company sees plenty of these people...) - it's nice to not have to compete with these people for positions they would have no business being in.
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