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  #41  
Old 10-19-2011, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by KSBurke View Post
That's the point I was trying to make earlier. This has most likley been discussed at CUSP, EC's, and IAA meetings among people that would like to see it happen and then it gets sprung on the membership because the only way it can happen. Joint discipline, FEM, and associates voting rights were steps to this goal.

My point was that it SHOULD have been done that way and all indications is that it wasn't.

The CAS claims that they were informed of this a couple days ago. You can say that they are lying, but I doubt they are. I take them at face value that they were not informed of this in advance and believe that the CAS blog post is not disingenuous at all.
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  #42  
Old 10-19-2011, 07:49 PM
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**** to the no, unless the SoA is just a non-voting department of the CAS.
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  #43  
Old 10-19-2011, 07:51 PM
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Outside public: winners
Actuarial Profession: winners
CAS members: losers

Not surprised FCAS would hate the idea.
I disagree with your "winners". Why would having one larger, poorly run organization benefit anyone?

The SOA should probably get their own house cleaned up before they start inviting more people to move in.
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  #44  
Old 10-19-2011, 07:54 PM
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Outside public: winners
Actuarial Profession: winners
CAS members: losers

Not surprised FCAS would hate the idea.
Actuarial Profession would be a major loser. Everything that the SOA has touched in the last 10 years has turned to shit. FEM was a disaster. CERA is a laughingstock. ASA has less meaning than a B.A. in General Studies. Computerized exams have swamped the entry level market with way too many candidates. Public pension plans are a disaster all over the country.
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  #45  
Old 10-19-2011, 08:05 PM
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But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

Of course, implicit in your assumptions is tha tthe SOA would effectively be running the new org. Given the number of FSAs and FCASs, that's a reasonable assumption, but just wanted to make it clear that your post doesn't make sense without that assumption. Like, if somehow they structured it so that CAS members were able to have enough votes to prevent changes to the things that matter to the CAS.
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  #46  
Old 10-19-2011, 08:07 PM
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And they wonder why nearly all CAS members are going to say this is a horrible idea?
So will SOA members who think about it hard enough. I certainly think it's a horrible idea. Working together nicely and cooperatively is one thing; merging is something entirely different.

Bruce
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  #47  
Old 10-19-2011, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by KSBurke View Post
That's the point I was trying to make earlier. This has most likley been discussed at CUSP, EC's, and IAA meetings among people that would like to see it happen and then it gets sprung on the membership because the only way it can happen. Joint discipline, FEM, and associates voting rights were steps to this goal.
Of course this has been discussed for years and years. CRUSAP was just the latest report to recommend merger. When I was SOA president, I effectively said that we shouldn't waste our time on such nonsense and, instead, should just try to work together more cooperatively. That happened reasonably well. I also tried to craft a close alliance between the SOA and CCA, which is far more natural than any other possibility. Even that broke down (due to staff objections, amazingly).

Brad is just wasting all of our time. And he should be focused on the SOA's mission: education and research. Not public policy and impossible mergers.

Bruce
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  #48  
Old 10-19-2011, 09:40 PM
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It's not a novel idea. In addition to Bruce's insider information, we have the completely public information that Clive Keating ran for the CAS board of directors for years on a platform of "merge the societies".

But I thought this had pretty much petered out. Clive wasn't on the ballot this year, for instance. I believe that the CAS was only told a couple of days ago that this would be the subject of the speech.
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  #49  
Old 10-19-2011, 09:51 PM
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I'm sure that's correct. People were basically taken by surprise when Brad decided to bring this up again. People were not surprised that he would rather be president of the AAA than president of the SOA!

Bruce
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  #50  
Old 10-19-2011, 09:58 PM
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What's with these senior actuaries (elders) who get nominated to an SOA or CAS position??? Immediately they get on a power trip and attempt to make major changes just so they can leave their footprint on the industry or societies, in spite of what the majority actually believes or wants.

As a Fellow of the CAS I say heck no, and am strongly opposed, as my online CAS survey just verified.
I don't know what the deal is, but as a future FCAS I'm really tired of seeing this profession get trashed and watered down by people who should know better, but apparently are more concerned in making themselves important and patting each other's backs. If these people can't honestly see what's best for the actuarial profession and actually take steps toward making it more relevant instead of putting together study after study and creating half-assed non-solutions, maybe they should get the hell out and let those who really care and have some ideas take a shot. It can't possibly turn out any worse than the disaster that these people have put together over the last dozen years or so.

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You guys read Brad's opening joke? It is funny and all but I am not sure I would have it as the first thing I say during my inauguration.
Professionalism in the SOA. Catch the fever!

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Originally Posted by johnny storm View Post
Of course, implicit in your assumptions is that the SOA would effectively be running the new org. Given the number of FSAs and FCASs, that's a reasonable assumption, but just wanted to make it clear that your post doesn't make sense without that assumption. Like, if somehow they structured it so that CAS members were able to have enough votes to prevent changes to the things that matter to the CAS.
I'm sure the SOA would say, "sure, we'll let the CAS be equals" ... and then ram through a change to the by-laws to yank it away and virtually disenfranchise the CAS. But it will be OK, it will all be in the best interests of the actuarial profession; they'll be doing it for the good of every FCAS and ACAS.

Screw this idea; if the leaders of the SOA want to ruin their organization and water down their credentials to something slightly above a "Certificate of Achievement" handed out to 4th graders who simply show up for school, let them. With any luck, some of us will be able to save the CAS before its leaders self-destruct it.
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