Confused actuary-to-be thinking about the future; advice?

[asphyxia]

Thanks for all of your thoughts. It's true that I haven't experienced audit work and as of yet have no idea whether I will like it or not. However I've never seen it viewed favorably as it's usually described as "boring" or "mundane". I guess I will have a better idea when I actually do start work and if I take the offer. Westley, what did you enjoy about the audit projects you worked on?

I think I'm a decent interviewer; I just didn't think through my options very well. Became very serious about an actuarial career my junior year and focused on that going forward... now that it's my senior year and recruiting is almost over (most people already have jobs wrapped up) I'm starting to think about other options and wondering about the what-could-have-been. I also know that while I am thinking about finance, I probably couldn't take the hours required for banking. I regret not considering sales and trading, as I think that would be quantitatively challenging and less strenuous hours-wise (but then again, stressful at the job).

I'm also under some time pressure as my offer will expire very soon and I will have to make a decision before then.

Does anyone have any opinions on differences between the Big 4? And Reinsurance?

[Dr T Non-Fan]

You go to an Ivy League school. You already have an offer for employment seven months before you graduate. You should be able to figure all this out on your own.

[Westley]

Recruiting isn't close to over, companies are always hiring talent. If they've already come to campus, you may need to work harder to land the job, but recruiting isn't over.

There are a lot of differences between the Big 4, but I will send you a PM separately (available to any who want it, but you must agree to non-disclosure; also consider that I may be biased, as one or more of them may - or may not - be my current or former employer). Have you considered calling people you worked with and discussing the audit issue with them?

Also, consider a possible strategy: Call the recruiter from your internship and tell them that you are dealing with a personal issue that will impact your job decision, and as such, you are not going to be able to decide by their deadline. You understand that they will then rescind the offer, but that you hope that, if your personal situation allows you to consider them, they will still consider you for any openings that you still have once you have resolved your situation. They will assume you are dating somebody and trying to figure out where she's going to law school or some such crap - who cares, not your issue. If they liked you, and you call back later asking for a job, they will almost certainly consider you for anything tht they have open at that time if you have a good story and are polite.

PS: Definitely better to talk to the HR person than the actuarial people, as
1 they will be better at handling the details and won't take it at all personally
2 you will know for sure that it's not me you're trying to pull this crap on.


Anyway, if you're willing to consider walking away from this offer, that's a way to leave the door open while you look elsewhere.

[Beach Bum]

A few things I wanted to include to this thread...

First, I work in a big 4 firm and like to look at the audit and consulting combo as a positive. Some of the audit work may be a bit more dry but that type of expertise goes a long way for the rest of your career. In most higher financial roles you will have some sort of exposure to accounting/audit standards, etc.

Second, with respect to you feeling pressure with your education and wanting to succeed. I have no doubt that early in your career you will excel at work based on your work ethic and drive to want to succeed. It also seems you have a lot of interest in your career progression. SO, the one undefined and most important variable here will be your ability to pass exams. If you start to fail a few exams you will no doubt question your own ability against others with a less prestigous education. So use your smarts and make sure to bust your behind and obtain your Fellow in the next 3-4 years.

Third, you always have the option of leaving a job so don't fret that joining big 4 is bad. Since I began here every person I have seen leave has gotten an outstanding job and I'm not just saying that, it's actually pretty impressive. So I know that when my time comes to venture out, which to go with your post will be into Reinsurance I think my background will serve me just fine.

Lastly, I do agree with what Westley said regarding IB and MC. If that is truly what you prefer then stop taking tests now and pursue that. Though you haven't had the luck yet you do have the necessary qualifications (Ivy League) that put you in front of tens of 1000s of other applicants.

Good Luck, PM me if you have more questions regarding Big 4, etc. Always willing to help.

[DW Simpson]

Originally Posted by asphyxia

Additionally, which entry-level positions are more “prestigious”, for lack of a better word?

...

I am also interested in management consulting, and interviewed with a few top firms but have not had any luck except for one final round to be held soon. Due to the nature of my school, many students end up in investment banking, private equity, hedge funds, or at management consulting firms. These careers are held in very high regard. I would be lying if I didn't say that my self-esteem is not affected by the strong pressure to enter these careers and my decision not to, and my failure in getting a job in management consulting. (The pereception that actuaries are "glorified accountants" really annoys me!) I have been slightly depressed since starting my senior year as a result. Also, I have a high GPA and it bothers me slightly that people laud the actuarial profession as something you can succeed in regardless of GPA as I have worked hard to get into this school and for this GPA… I guess I’m just looking for some reassurance that I will be going into a good career and my education is worth something in this world.

It doesn't sound like the actuarial profession is a good fit for you.

[tommie frazier]

define success? I thought you could succeed in any career despite a low gpa. it is hard to succeed when not smart or not hard working. you can gain entry to the career with a low gpa IF you have passed the exams, which in some way show enough smarts and/or hard working for us.

your education is worth what you get from it. if it was strictly a financial exchange that you expected, then you will only view it as such. if so, spend your afternoon laughing at the liberal arts majors at your prestigious school for wasting their money and time.

[ClubberLang]

If you're that worried about the prestige of your school, GPA, job title, etc, it sounds like you'd be better off in a job that most people have at least heard of.

Trying to explain what an actuary is/does will NOT win you daddy's approval when you're invited to join your potential fair lady's family to watch a polo match. Nor will your ego be properly inflated when you're trying to explain what an actuary is to some guy who's name ends in "the third" at the yacht club in the Hamptons.


Now... if you want to learn a lot FAST, big 4 is probably the way to go. You'll see a ton of stuff come through your desk, and reserve testing is actually a great way to see how a lot of things are done in the real world. Nothing wrong with the Millimans and the Tillinghasts of the world either - probably less breadth in your work but hopefully depth to replace it, and likely a better environment for finding yourself a mentor.

Stop worrying about what everyone else thinks and do what you want to do. Or continue to worry about it, and go do something that's held in "high regard"

[asphyxia]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I've thought very long and hard about this and I've decided that, while I will be open to other opportunities that come my way, I will probably be accepting my offer in the end as it seems like a good place to start and gain experience. I was serious about being an actuary in the beginning, and I let my goals be swayed because of peer pressure. I will definitely try to pass exams as fast as I can, will hopefully be able to reach FCAS within the next 5 years or so and then take it from there.

Claude - So you're saying that education and prestige matter little in the actuarial world?

[kazh]

School doesn't measure everything that's important. It does measure many important things. Prestige comes best with self-respect.

[BondGirl]

I'm going to disagree - employers are definitely impressed by someone who has worked hard in college and is excited about the actuarial profession. It's not so much the name as the quality of education you've received. Yeah, the name will help you get a job - people know Harvard is a good school. Your coursework is very challenging and I really think you learn how to think and become smarter by challenging yourself. I think people who stand out are more likely to succeed, period. You make yourself stand out. I don't go to any Ivy League school, but at least I can say that I've just become smarter from taking 4 years of rigorous coursework and learned a lot about math, finance, computer science, and statistics - the material I've learned will help me in my job and on the exams, as well as I've learned how to push myself past my limits and I'm smarter and more dedicated because of it. Then again I've heard Ivy League is kind of like a Country Club - hard to get in, easy to graduate from - which I assume is what ClubberLang is referring to. Math isn't a cakewalk at any school though

Anyway weren't people from your firm impressed that you went to an Ivy League school? Didn't that help you get the internship? The main difference is that Actuarial companies don't recruit exclusively at top schools. Some careers have an entrance barrier that almost requires you to go to a top school - Actuarial's barrier is passing the exams.