![]() |
|
|
|||||||
| FlashChat | Actuarial Discussion | Preliminary Exams | CAS/SOA Exams | Cyberchat | Around the World | Suggestions |
United Kingdom | Canada
| Entry Level |
D.W. Simpson |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
|
For anyone that thinks pensions are boring:
Quote:
|
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
I wonder what is the basis for the amount of damages.
After I left Mercer, a former client sued them for mistakes that they made. The former client wanted the unfunded liability as damages. Mercer admitted to the mistakes, but said that no damages were done since the liability is what it is. If Mercer had done the valuations correctly, the former client's required contributions would have been higher. I suspect that Mercer would use a similar argument. Mercer's action did not create liability; different assumptions would have only accelerated the State's contributions. |
|
#3
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
![]() You miscalculated the amount of our required contribution by 10%. Now pay up 100% of our unfunded liabilities! Sometimes, the world makes no sense. |
|
#4
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
The client often relies on the actuary to tell them what to contribute. If you tell your client that they need to make $x a year contribution to meet their goal, and you find out you've been making a mistake the entire time and it should have been $2x, what should your obligation be? |
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
|
I would think that you could go back to the point of the error, recalculate the funding position, and then the obiligation to the actuary could be the shortfall in the contributions that should have been made and any penalties and interest. That could add up pretty quickly depending on the shortfall and how many years the mistake went unnoticed. I do think that the total unfunded is extreme given that the majority of plans today have some level of unfunded liability.
I read an article in the news today that Hewitt is getting sued for some misallocations of settlements from the Enron pension plan. I guess that no matter how good (or bad) you do your job that there are people who want to assign blame when things don't go as expected. |
|
#6
|
||||
|
||||
|
WW selling off their public sector wing doesn't seem so far fetched given this. If a plan is ongoing there really should be no liability due to the actuaries miscalculations, unless they were blatant fraud. On termination things get stickier because no more money is flowing into the pot, but in an ongoing plan it's all guesswork until the last member dies.
__________________
Your own conciousness blinds you to the true existence of all things external to it. |
|
#7
|
||||
|
||||
|
This assumes the assumptions were inappropriate at the time. Based on what is in the OP
Quote:
As for Enron, Hewitt did screw up. They calculated individual benefits incorrectly because they used the wrong historical stock price to calculate the allocation of individual gains. That is completely different than being wrong about assumptions of the future.
__________________
I am a scientist. I am sorry to disappoint you but I have never seen an elf or a troll. But who am I to exclude their existence? - Arni Bjoernsson You are stupid and evil and do not know you are stupid and evil. ... Dumb students are educated stupid. - timecube.com Usually while I'm reading, I'm actually thinking about...midgets riding toy horses - Roto |
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
It is possible that if Mercer had come up with higher contributions, Alaska would have adjusted their plan(s) to provide lower levels of benefits. To that extent, Alaska may have been damaged.
My old boss used to tell clients how every time we do a valuation, we get something wrong and have to do it all over again next year. I wonder if he still does that or if the lawyers have gotten to him. Puzzling that the article refers to "Retirement System" for both plans in the same sentence with future health-care costs. |
|
#9
|
||||
|
||||
|
Why is this puzzling? Is it because you cannot imagine a pension plan that provides health insurance as part of the benefit? Would it help if you remembered that these are state plans and not corporate plans where anything that costs too much or is hard to quantify has been removed?
__________________
Quote:
|
|
#10
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
![]()
__________________
When I meet you in person, shots on me! Do you bite? We are a bunch of high roller players who like to play high roller games - Hardinda |
![]() |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|