eBay "No Sales" protest scheduled to occur Feb 18-25

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

IFYP.

Thanks. Of course. The point is that neither person should be able to compel any sort of feedback (including no feedback) from the other. I think there'd be more honest feedback that way.

[neofan]

Originally Posted by ActuaryGuy23

Have you EVER sold anything on eBay? I'll assume not. Suffice it to say that I totally disagree with this.

The problem with your theory is that - in far too many cases - the real negative consequences of shady business are on the side of the seller. If a seller receives too many negative feedback ratings (by too many, I mean 2% of all feedback), they can be suspended or banned from eBay altogether. If a buyer gets negative feedback, it can have almost no impact on their being able to buy again. Short of the "three non-payment strikes", I'm not sure buyers ever get the heave ho.

In essence, this policy allows all your flamers, idiots, and crazies to exploit the buyer side because they can cause the most destruction without having to front a penny on their end. At least under the old system, sellers could alert potential buyers and other sellers that a particular negative was just some yahoo who couldn't read the listing or just is bat-5h!t crazy. Without being able to leave feedback on these trolls, I guarantee you'll see an uptick in the number of transaction disputes and non-paying bidders.

Agreed. I stopped selling on eBay after 2003 (it was bad enough, not worth my time then, absolutely forget it now), but now I'm almost done with buying too (see the last 2 points) as it's becoming dump ground for junks or magnet for scammers.

I didn’t use it as supplemental income but for fun and hobby, but I have noticed things going very wrong over the last few years

-increase in scams, frauds, and rip-offs many folds (if not exponentially) from fake/broken items to buyers doing paypal chargebacks.
-increase fees (not a problem if eBay’s services are great), as much as 20% out of final value if you include Paypal.
-competitions from other sellers, thus lowering bid prices.
-gradually forcing everyone (sellers and buyers alike) to use Paypal (I closed my account recently due to security breach)
-increase of winning bidders not paying (this will only get worse with new policy).
-decrease of qualities and quantities of items and sellers (in terms of their services).
-major shift of auctions from specialty/rare items from casual sellers to common junks in large volumes from power sellers (this make the purpose of eBay pointless as you can get a lot of those in local stores).

As for switching to other sites, forget it, either they’re as bad as eBay (Amazon or Craigslist) or they don’t generate enough traffic. Overall, I think ecommerce is oversaturated and even myself I started buying things locally again, with the benefit of touch and see it before I buy. If you sell specialty items that no one else has, eventually you’ll be leaning toward hobby sites.

Now for those b!tching about the changes, they are the ones relying on eBay so all the protests and boycotts are futile (they will be back next week) until they realize they're just giving their time/money away and quit ecommerce instead of those who are smart enough to leave long ago when troubles started brewing and said nothing.

Also, I have 100% feedbacks since 1998 (aka neofan) and now they're going to take them away, WTF?

What happens if the winning bidder doesn't pay? Do you get stuck with e-bay fees and have to start over?

[neofan]

Originally Posted by Lucy

What happens if the winning bidder doesn't pay? Do you get stuck with e-bay fees and have to start over?

You're stuck with insertion fees, final value fee can be refunded, but it's so cumbersome to claim your fees back, and yes, you'll have to start over. Another disturbing trend is back stabbing of your competing sellers by creating new account and putting joke bids (obviously they're not going to pay).

I really miss the time eBay started in the late 90s, frauds were rare, and it was a fun place to exchange hobby with others and it was indeed possible to make money from eBay, but we've all studied Price Theory and know that once more people enter a venture, profits will decline, down to a level that no one wants to do, and climb back to equilibrium level.

[ActuaryGuy23]

Originally Posted by Lucy

What happens if the winning bidder doesn't pay? Do you get stuck with e-bay fees and have to start over?

You can request a Final Value Fee Credit, which is just getting the money back that eBay charges on the selling price. You don't get your listing fees back and are pretty much screwed if your item is time-sensitive to sell. For example, I collect logo golf balls from the major tournaments and try to sell the extra two from each sleeve I buy. If someone backs out on a purchase or the ball doesn't sell the week of that tournament, you're talking about a 50% minimum decrease in the resell value. In other words, my hobby goes from a break even one to a losing one.

[neofan]

Originally Posted by ActuaryGuy23

You can request a Final Value Fee Credit, which is just getting the money back that eBay charges on the selling price. You don't get your listing fees back and are pretty much screwed if your item is time-sensitive to sell. For example, I collect logo golf balls from the major tournaments and try to sell the extra two from each sleeve I buy. If someone backs out on a purchase or the ball doesn't sell the week of that tournament, you're talking about a 50% minimum decrease in the resell value. In other words, my hobby goes from a break even one to a losing one.

LOL, I figured if I want to unload cheaper items of my game collections, with eBay fees, time, I am actually better off by giving them away and save time (our time are very valuable now).

[ActuaryGuy23]

Originally Posted by neofan

LOL, I figured if I want to unload cheaper items of my game collections, with eBay fees, time, I am actually better off by giving them away and save time (our time are very valuable now).

I generally agree. I rarely sell pieces of my collection anymore and collect even more rarely. I will occasionally look for some of the older tournament logos (which get VERY expensive, which may surprise some*), but that's about it.

*Logo balls from the early 80's and back can easily bring $50+.

[Michiganman]

The negative feedback issue hits close to home for me. Several years ago I ordered a sports jersey from a Canadian seller (~2% negative feedback, I was an ebay newbie and thought that was acceptable at the time), which I never received. The seller kept on stringing me along with “let’s wait a little longer, sometimes it takes time to ship to the States.” Finally after 2 months I asked for my money back, which was refused on the grounds that he did indeed mail the jersey. The seller offered to ship me an alternate jersey, none of which were acceptable to me. And by this time, I had waited too long to make a formal complaint to ebay so I was left with no recourse to get my money back.

I then left negative feedback for the seller, who retaliated by giving me negative feedback with very hostile and insulting comments (“Scam buyer! Sellers beware!”). I currently have 7 positive feedbacks, and the 1 negative feedback.

I have not used ebay since.

I do not believe this is an uncommon experience, and it is my understanding this situation is what the feedback rule changes were meant to address.

[Incredible Hulctuary]

Originally Posted by Lucy

I know buyers who are afraid to give negative feedback because of seller retaliation. I actually think this is a fairly serious issue with e-bay. I've also had a seller who never gave me feedback because I didn't give him feedback - they were waiting so they could dis me if I said anything bad, I suspect.

I am both a seller and buyer. When I sell, I don't leave feedback until the buyer does, in case they try to pull a scam by saying they never received the item or received the wrong item and try doing a chargeback. Since my feedback score is so low (under 50, but 100% positive), a single negative would put me over the dreaded 2% threshold.

I think the better fix would have been to "blind" the feedback, and just not post it until both parties have given feedback. Then you could let people change feedback up (if they resolved some issue after the feedback) but not down, and also let people post a short response to bad feedback.

That would have been the most sensible solution ... keeps people honest and counteracts feedback-driven retaliation. But the recent eBay changes strike me as heavy-handed decisions made by arrogant management 10 levels up who have never used eBay themselves, don't know what is really going on at the "street level", and don't want to listen to customers. This is reminiscent of the Circuity City's "fire the best paid employees" policy.

eBay does have a near-monopoly on the online auction business, so not that many of the frequent sellers will move to another site, because almost nowhere else generates the high level of traffic they rely on. However, some of them will simply stop selling stuff altogether, as the new fees make it unprofitable to sell low-margin items, or the profitability decreases to the point where some full-time sellers cut back to part time and get a day job instead. Lower-volume sellers will find their way to more specialized sites, such as Audiogon for audio equipment or Switchplanet (which I have been using a lot recently) for used DVDs and CDs.

eBay's stock will go down, and I will be buying a short interest in it.

[ActuaryGuy23]

Originally Posted by Incredible Hulctuary

I am both a seller and buyer. When I sell, I don't leave feedback until the buyer does, in case they try to pull a scam by saying they never received the item or received the wrong item and try doing a chargeback. Since my feedback score is so low (under 50, but 100% positive), a single negative would put me over the dreaded 2% threshold.

Very well said. I am the same (both buyer and seller), so I see it on both ends of the spectrum. To cut out either forum sets a really bad precedent and opens the door wide open for the abusers of the other side. There are cons and crazies at both ends of the auction exchange. Sellers should be able to comment about yahoos who expect the world for a quarter, can't read a listing description, or understand what "seller ships to United States" means. Buyers should be able to warn fellow consumers if the person/store they're buying from is reputable.

I really don't understand how eBay continues to make business decisions that are in the best interests of so few.