Are Teachers under paid?

[fallout]

Originally Posted by johnny c

There are a lot of problems in our eductation system and you bring up an important one. What do you propose the government do about this one? My point was that the overcrowding problem is the most important problem that the government actually has direct control over. A lower student/teacher ratio can do wonders for the learning environment.

The government actually has direct control over just about everything. They could pass laws that parents of failing students get flogged, which would probably in a day, increase the amout of homework done, and make for better students. I am not advocating this, just refuting your point that the government does not have control over this.

[Tim><]

Harry



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 2988

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:25 pm Post subject:

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J-Rab wrote:
True true. In the public school where I taught, there was a history teacher. He had wanted to teach computers; however, he had a degree in teaching. They didn't let him as he lacked the requisite computer science credits. Incidentally, he was a retired software tycoon who built his company from the ground up; he also developed the initial prototype software . . .


What the hell is a software "tycoon" doing teaching?
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20-17

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As he put it: "Giving something back"

[Mulan]

Originally Posted by fallout

I disagree on the problems with schools. I think the problems mostly start at home. Parents that don't care send in kids that don't care and the best teacher in the world can not teach a kid that doesn't care. Making a kid care should not be a teacher's job, rather a parent's.

I agree that there are parents that don't care, but I do not think it is most of them. Most do care, but I would guess that most are not equipped to help properly with homework and the directions that come home are sometimes impossible to decifer. Also most parents are not equipped to reteach things their kids don't get. This makes parents less likely to help kids with their homework. Besides, schools want involved parents to sell the fundraiser things and send treats to the Valentines Day party and to sign off on Reading Log.... not really get involved the way you are thinking.

Sometimes, fallout, I can tell you have NO idea....

[Loner]

The problem becomes how do you determine pay-for-performance when the "product" has a will of its own? Do you pay teachers of advanced classes more when their students are more cooperative/motivated, and probbaly would have done just as well with a crappy teacher?

Then there is the issue of workload. Most math and science teachers will agree that they have a less time-consuming job than english and history teachers, yet they are paid on the same scale and expected to handle the same number of students.

[Actuary321]

When we looked into a private school for our son I came upon something I thought was excellent. Each parent was required to provide a certain number of hours of volunteer work to the school something like 75 hours. It could be in the classroom, in afterschool programs, in extracirricular activities, fundraising, just about anything. You could also buy your way out of it for something like $25 per hour. I am guessing most people did the volunteer work.

BC: In Utah they either just passed or are working on a project that would make it easier for non-credentialed teachers to get teaching jobs and get their teaching credentials. It used to be that even with a college degree (any level) you would be required to go back to college and get mostlikely 2 years worth of classes to meet the requirements to get a teaching certificate. Now just about anyone with a 4 year degree will be able to be hired by a school district to teach as long as there is a contracted plan to get the teacher certified with in 2 or 3 or some fairly short number of years. During this time I believe there are extra requirements on supervision and performance evaluations. But it is a start.

[The Diabolical Biz Markie]

Originally Posted by Harry

It's the best argument as to why home schooled students do well. It certainly isn't the education level of the home school "teachers".

Funny how home schoolers have unpaid "teachers", who you obviously think aren't well educated (I am curious how you would "know"...but that's "another" "story"), yet they do so well.

Isn't that odd?

I mean, I am guessing you think the home-"schoolers" are pretty well beneath you, which probably means their kids aren't of steller genetic material. So, with all these odds stacked against them...and with any of that gummint money, look at how they do. I just can't figure it out.

Maybe if the gummint spends more money, they'll get it right eventually.

[The Diabolical Biz Markie]

Originally Posted by Harry

It's the best argument as to why home schooled students do well. It certainly isn't the education level of the home school "teachers".

The "arrogance" of "liberals" never ceases to "amaze" me.

You, who are soooooooo well educated.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Home schooling seems to stunt the social growth of many children. This is an important aspect of going to school with others, and I think makes up for the possible loss learning. Outgoing social people may not be as smart, but they succeed more often.

There needs to be a promotional system with teachers, and not base it on "experience." There is little reason to give an extra effort if you are going to get 3% every year regardless. Those who motivate students need to be worth more. There needs to be distinctions based on what teachers have accomplished. I agree this would be difficult to measure, but it would give teachers a reason to "advance" themselves in the school and keep doing what they want to be doing - teach.

[E. Blackadder]

Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

Home schooling seems to stunt the social growth of many children. This is an important aspect of going to school with others, and I think makes up for the possible loss learning. Outgoing social people may not be as smart, but they succeed more often.

Even if you were right (which you're not), I'd still have to say, tell that to Bill Gates.

[Truth Soldier]

Bill Gates is only 1 person, and would have little bearing in an argument about frequency.