"Ideal" Entry Level Candidate???

[Doc Holiday]

Originally Posted by Need Vacation

Wow, this thread is filled with self absorbed know-it-all geeks. I am shocked.
Apart from the OP's original inquiry, reasonably, if not politely, asking why his entry-level applications are being rejected (By the way, two quick answers for you - lack of experience and the poor state of economy), there's nothing or no one on this thread that made me proud of being an actuary. In other words, if I were a hiring manager, most of the people posting in this thread would get a no pass for exactly the same reasons they'd reject the OP.
Look folks, we are all guilty into buying into this notion of somehow being more important for the corporate world than we really are. It all starts from college where we let the academia brainwash our minds with myths about a "Career" that is waiting for us upon the graduation. We all like to fall for the phony brochures handed to us by the HR people with that "Black guy" and the "Asian girl" up front. But who are we lying? Most of you know the BS that's happening in the selection process. The hiring decisions belong to those with power, but not necessarily with the objective minds (seen it all myself). So before you jump on the angry bandwagon to fry the OP, just remember that we are all expendable in this business world. Otherwise we wouldnt be posting on this site, but rather enjoy our early retirements somewhere on french riviera.

What do you mean by this? I work with a black guy and an Asian girl.

[L. Mo]

Originally Posted by Need Vacation

Wow, this thread is filled with self absorbed know-it-all geeks. I am shocked.
Apart from the OP's original inquiry, reasonably, if not politely, asking why his entry-level applications are being rejected (By the way, two quick answers for you - lack of experience and the poor state of economy), there's nothing or no one on this thread that made me proud of being an actuary. In other words, if I were a hiring manager, most of the people posting in this thread would get a no pass for exactly the same reasons they'd reject the OP.

bwa ha ha ha! I don't think that word means what you think it means.

While the OP might have been asking a serious question to begin with, it became very obvious very quickly that he was just going to keep digging himself into a deep, deep hole. At that point, it turns into a sort of pitchfork mob - we want him to keep digging - it's entertaining!

Every fresh graduate thinks they're hot poop. They think they can pass the exams lickety-split, and be king of the world by the time they're 30. It takes a kick in the behind for them to realize that we're all smart people. The competition has become stronger in the last 20 years, so you really need to have something special to be seen among the crowd.

If you make it thru the "on paper" requirements (bachelor's degree, >3.0 GPA, an exam or 3), we assume you can do the work (even then. some can't hack it). Then comes the important stuff - can the candidate explain a technical concept to non-technical people; can the candidate relate to others; is the candidate easy to talk to; do I want to work with this person.

Originally Posted by L. Mo

If you make it thru the "on paper" requirements (bachelor's degree, >3.0 GPA, an exam or 3), we assume you can do the work (even then. some can't hack it). Then comes the important stuff - can the candidate explain a technical concept to non-technical people; can the candidate relate to others; is the candidate easy to talk to; do I want to work with this person.

You make it seem like the interviewer learns the candidate's personality through the 30 minute interview. I don't think that's the case. Common, I've been on 25+ interviews in the last 2 years. Here's how they go:

> Interviewer leads candidate to the room
> Interviewer offers candidate a seat
> Interviewer tells candidate a brief biography of their actuarial history
> Interviewer asks candidate a series of meaningless questions like:
- Tell me about yourself.
- How did you get into actuarial science?
- Why do you want to be an actuary?
- If you had to explain what an actuary is to someone off the street,
what would you tell them?
- What is your experience with actuarial exams?
- How did you balance actuarial exams with your class-work

... yada yada yada It's all crap

[ConfusedNY]

Originally Posted by eagles418

You make it seem like the interviewer learns the candidate's personality through the 30 minute interview. I don't think that's the case. Common, I've been on 25+ interviews in the last 2 years. Here's how they go:

> Interviewer leads candidate to the room
> Interviewer offers candidate a seat
> Interviewer tells candidate a brief biography of their actuarial history
> Interviewer asks candidate a series of meaningless questions like:
- Tell me about yourself.
- How did you get into actuarial science?
- Why do you want to be an actuary?
- If you had to explain what an actuary is to someone off the street,
what would you tell them?
- What is your experience with actuarial exams?
- How did you balance actuarial exams with your class-work

... yada yada yada It's all crap

What should they do?

Have you solve 1+2 and time you?

I actually went to an interview and they did this to me.

[Darkness Falls]

Originally Posted by eagles418

You make it seem like the interviewer learns the candidate's personality through the 30 minute interview. I don't think that's the case. Common, I've been on 25+ interviews in the last 2 years. Here's how they go:

> Interviewer leads candidate to the room
> Interviewer offers candidate a seat
> Interviewer tells candidate a brief biography of their actuarial history
> Interviewer asks candidate a series of meaningless questions like:
- Tell me about yourself.
- How did you get into actuarial science?
- Why do you want to be an actuary?
- If you had to explain what an actuary is to someone off the street,
what would you tell them?
- What is your experience with actuarial exams?
- How did you balance actuarial exams with your class-work

... yada yada yada It's all crap

It seems that you are quite mad about something in the interview process. Have you graduated and still looking for work, in that case I can understnad the frustration. If not then I don't know what to think.

Here's my advice, most people going through the interview are going to be pretty similar. Find something to set yourself apart from the group and use that to get an edge. I personally went crazy on exams to compensate for my shortcomings in interviews (a lot of that is due to the language barrier [French]) so that I would stand out and not blend in with the crowd.

[Need Vacation]

Originally Posted by L. Mo

bwa ha ha ha! I don't think that word means what you think it means.

While the OP might have been asking a serious question to begin with, it became very obvious very quickly that he was just going to keep digging himself into a deep, deep hole. At that point, it turns into a sort of pitchfork mob - we want him to keep digging - it's entertaining!

Every fresh graduate thinks they're hot poop. They think they can pass the exams lickety-split, and be king of the world by the time they're 30. It takes a kick in the behind for them to realize that we're all smart people. The competition has become stronger in the last 20 years, so you really need to have something special to be seen among the crowd.

If you make it thru the "on paper" requirements (bachelor's degree, >3.0 GPA, an exam or 3), we assume you can do the work (even then. some can't hack it). Then comes the important stuff - can the candidate explain a technical concept to non-technical people; can the candidate relate to others; is the candidate easy to talk to; do I want to work with this person.

You don't see anything wrong with this reaction? What good does it serve if we can't even respond to a simple question without kicking some one in the behind? Yeah, I agree that graduating students tend to come out sometimes expecting the world to bend in the shape they want. But I'm saying it's mostly not their fault. Its unbelieveable how much faulty information they feed them in colleges. Add to this hundreds of the career related web-sites with their "salary surveys". Also, I bet some of the students' parents used the so-called "The college will set you up for life" logic when pushing them to take a certain major in school. Let's just avoid kicking people in the butts along the lines.

[Vorian Atreides]

Originally Posted by eagles418

You make it seem like the interviewer learns the candidate's personality through the 30 minute interview. I don't think that's the case. Common, I've been on 25+ interviews in the last 2 years. Here's how they go:

> Interviewer leads candidate to the room
> Interviewer offers candidate a seat
> Interviewer tells candidate a brief biography of their actuarial history
> Interviewer asks candidate a series of meaningless questions like:
- Tell me about yourself.
- How did you get into actuarial science?
- Why do you want to be an actuary?
- If you had to explain what an actuary is to someone off the street,
what would you tell them?
- What is your experience with actuarial exams?
- How did you balance actuarial exams with your class-work

... yada yada yada It's all crap

If I want to know whether or not I can work with someone, these are the types of questions I'd like answers to. And I imagine that many seasoned hiring managers can get a pretty good idea of what type of employee they would be hiring based on answers to questions such as these. (Not to mention that these have to be the easiest questions one can answer.)

And if the interview lasts only 30 minutes, was it by design (information about length provided before they started asking the questions) or was it a surprise that they were done after 30 minutes?

[abwoc]

Originally Posted by eagles418

You make it seem like the interviewer learns the candidate's personality through the 30 minute interview. I don't think that's the case. Common, I've been on 25+ interviews in the last 2 years.

I got an offer from my third interview. One exam, 3.0 overall GPA, zero experience. What I did have was wisdom from the AO--thanks AO!

I went in to each interview ready to let my personality shine through. My answers to their questions indicated that I was easy to get along with, that I probably wouldn't need constant supervision, that I know when I need to ask questions, that I was very approachable and open to criticism, etc. At my offer-winning interview, I was given the opportunity to speak with my future boss about my love for college athletics, and I talked for a bit with my future grand-boss about the game Rock Band and how it compares to playing actual instruments.

In my experience, interviewers are not so concerned with your qualifications, but whether or not you'd be a pain in the butt to work with.

[banpeikun]

congrats!!

[Quasi]

Originally Posted by abwoc

I got an offer from my third interview. One exam, 3.0 overall GPA, zero experience. What I did have was wisdom from the AO--thanks AO!

I went in to each interview ready to let my personality shine through. My answers to their questions indicated that I was easy to get along with, that I probably wouldn't need constant supervision, that I know when I need to ask questions, that I was very approachable and open to criticism, etc. At my offer-winning interview, I was given the opportunity to speak with my future boss about my love for college athletics, and I talked for a bit with my future grand-boss about the game Rock Band and how it compares to playing actual instruments.

In my experience, interviewers are not so concerned with your qualifications, but whether or not you'd be a pain in the butt to work with.

Congrats! A good personality is a good asset.