"Ideal" Entry Level Candidate???

[MathProf]

I troll these sites occasionally so that I can talk to my students about the job market and so that I can see what they are reading. This is the first time I've ever been compelled to post a response.

Originally Posted by ActuarialHeroOfTime

GPA... Yea Im just below a 3.0. But when do exams outweigh GPA? I didnt have the greatest freshman and sophomore years. I was just going through the motions. But when I put this actuarial goal in front of me, all of my semesters were above 3.0, and I even grabbed deans list on 18 credits one semester. Im 2/2 on my last 2 exam sittings, and Im sure Ill be 3/3 come May.

I've been in academia for a while and in that time I've learned that a GPA not a measure of how intelligent a student is but rather how well a student follows the rules. I've had many cocky "genius" kids who couldn't be bothered to come to class or put forth their best effort on assignments or work with other students to improve their teamwork skills. Result: D or F. On the flipside I've had tons of (at best) mediocre students, who look at the syllabus and think, "Ah ha! This is the standard, this is the rule." The student then works very hard on the homework, comes to office hours to ask questions he/she doesn't quite understand, talks to me after a test about the problems he/she answered incorrectly. The result: A.

Originally Posted by ActuarialHeroOfTime

So what if I did poorly in chem my freshman year? coasted through some stupid sociology course or environmental science. in my opinion.. Gen Eds should be removed from undergrad requirements. Its a waste of time/money and a way for universities to suck that much more money out of you. .

Doing well in a Gen Ed is excellent evidence that you are able to work with people who don't share a skill set with you. Gen Eds are also where you get most of your experience communicating with people who are not math types. Failure in Gen Eds is a red flag that a student has an inability either follow set forth policies/rules (i.e. the syllabus) or bloom outside the student's comfort zone. I suspect you failed in both aspects.

Originally Posted by ActuarialHeroOfTime

Even in a math or stats course. Get A's, B's on all the homework, then you get thrown a curveball or two on an exam. So you end up with a B in the course, not an A. I wont even begin on the variance of instructors, ability to present, selection of material, the questions theyll ask. 3.3/4.0 is not bad. I obviously know my math and stats, I wouldnt be able to pass exams if I didnt. Im studying MFE right now. I dont think its hard, the toughest part is memorizing formulas, not understanding and executing them.

You earned Bs on homework? I tell all my students that they should have As on the homework. If they don't know how to do a problem, they should come ask. Afterall, if they can't figure out how to correctly do a problem on the homework when they are relaxed and have the book in front of them what hope do they have producing the correct solution if the problem appeared on the exam. I'm sorry to tell you that the "curveballs" you were thrown on the exams probably weren't curveballs at all. You would probably find that these questions came from the text in the book or the lecture notes. I learned long ago that most students are incapable of creating new ideas from old ones.

And I hate to burst your bubble but a 3.3 major GPA is pretty lousy. That means you earned more Bs than As. That should have been an indicator that you were in the wrong major. My colleagues won't even consider giving a award to a student with below a 3.75 major GPA even if that means we give no awards at the end of the year (which has happened). With grade inflation these days your As likely should have been Bs and your Bs where likely "gentlemen's Bs."

The game is not necessarily up for you, though. You might be one of the few people who would actually benefit from an M.S. Apply to an actuarial science, fin math, applied math, data mining, or applied stat Masters Program. Take some modeling (regression, etc) courses, learn how to pretend to respect those "beneath" you (vital for the HR interview), and teach some lower division undergrads. When my husband applied to his first actuarial position they didn't care about his undergrad transcripts they only wanted his most recent transcripts. This is your perfect opportunity to turn that 2.xx on your resume in to a 4.0. The added bonus is that you will be out of the job market for two years which may be enough to see the market turn around and you will have two years to work on your soft skills.

You also seem to think you are better than the students who ask "1000"s of questions. Wrong, again. The student who asks lots of questions is the student who sees connections that the others don't. Open your eyes and look around you.

Originally Posted by ActuarialHeroOfTime

Look at recent academic success. Good GPA my last 4 semesters, passing exams (on my own. with no company paying the way for me. I read the book. I do the problems, and I learn it. buy my own materials, pay my own fees).

Big whoop. So did every other candidate in the stack of 300 resumes. Welcome to the real world.

[gracyjoe]

Very well put!!

[sooner82]

I also didn't have the hottest GPA out of college. I would suggest finding a related non-actuarial position while continuing to sit for exams. IMO, experience gained in an office environment does more to offset your GPA than passing a couple exams. Thats what I did and after a year I was able to land two entry level interviews (with one offer) and wasn't even asked what my GPA was in either interview.

[navist3388]

After reading the post by MathProf, I feel compelled to post. I have to agree with everything being said. Sadly, the more than the OP opens his mouth the more that I dislike him. I'm a math major, with a not so stellar 3.45 major GPA. The reason is not that I had a lack of advising or that the professors were bad it is simply that I didn't care, and now I'm paying the price for not caring enough. However, I don't blame the professors for being incompetent at their jobs. It irritates me to no end with my fellow students call professors incompetent or pretend like them doing poorly in a class is somehow not their fault.
Furthermore, with the companies I've worked at while in college and before hand, I've run into people like the OP, and to be honest they don't last long. At the company I work for currently, we had a safety intern who was much like the OP, and he was laid off as soon as the lay offs started. However, I managed to escape the lay offs because (a) had soft skills and (b) knew how to keep my mouth shut and not rant. I also worry that the OP is hurting others with his mindless rants about how horrible his life is because he feels like he is worth so much more than he is obviously getting credit for. My bet is that he was spoiled rotten as a child, and doesn't understand the concept of working for a days living. I think that he feels that he should simply be handed everything, and past discretions overlooked. As my professor told me yesterday, the best indicator of our future is our past, and to see that the OP has taken a "graduate" level Regression class makes me wonder why he does not see that concept more clearly.
Honestly, being only a lowly college student I would not give this "ideal" candidate a second glance. It seems to me like all he is making is excuse after excuse for his own poor decisions. That is something that I do not believe any employer would want in even a janitor.

[banpeikun]

MathProf's post is spot on. It deserves to be in the sticky.

[Vorian Atreides]

Well put, Math Prof!

[ActuarialHeroOfTime]

yea hes a funny guy isnt he? i liked the part about me being in the wrong major. gave me a real laugh. 3.3/4.0 is lousy? A-/B+ isnt good anymore? and id haveto say no my grades werent inflated as to increase everything an entire gpa point, that would be absolutely ridiculous, and if thats what happening at other schools, its a joke. How about the 'cocky geniuses' as you put it, who dont need to go to class, but still get As and Bs. Then the professor is IMPRESSED by you and says 'wow you did really well and i never see you in lecture' not everyone needs to be taught. its called independent study.

[MG]

Originally Posted by ActuarialHeroOfTime

yea hes a funny guy isnt he?

Actually, I think it's a woman, as the poster mentioned "my husband".

[JMO]

Originally Posted by MG

Actually, I think it's a woman, as the poster mentioned "my husband".

The funny guy is the one who calls himself "Actuarial Hero of All Time." He should at least wait until he has an actuarial job before calling himself and actuarial.
JMO, of course.

[Darkness Falls]

Originally Posted by ActuarialHeroOfTime

yea hes a funny guy isnt he? i liked the part about me being in the wrong major. gave me a real laugh. 3.3/4.0 is lousy? A-/B+ isnt good anymore? and id haveto say no my grades werent inflated as to increase everything an entire gpa point, that would be absolutely ridiculous, and if thats what happening at other schools, its a joke. How about the 'cocky geniuses' as you put it, who dont need to go to class, but still get As and Bs. Then the professor is IMPRESSED by you and says 'wow you did really well and i never see you in lecture' not everyone needs to be taught. its called independent study.

You're just digging yourself a grave here. You get advice and effectively ignore it. Yet give off the fact that you are entitled to a job. I'm just hoping you don't come off this cocky during interviews, because I don't see why anyone would want to hire you.

I'll reiterate what I've already said in this thread. You're nothing special, so if a company hires you they are going to want someone who is pleasant to work with and is willing to make sacrifices. You don't appear to enter into either category.