Why Are People So Pessimistic About Actuaries On This Board?

[Chalengr]

I think it's the companies duty to find talented people at the top. Even if your FSA / FCAS that DOES NOT mean your talented!!! It means you can do a lot of technical calculations. I mean this is not a golden ticket, and if anyone thinks so they're crazy! There is NO golden ticket anywhere. Heck, some of the richest people in the world have no formal education, i.e. Li ka shing of Hong Kong. Arguably THE biggest person in insurance is Ajit Jain head of Berkshire Hathaway's reinsurance unit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajit_Jain). Take this statistic about Ajit in 2004 he single handedly wrote $3.7 billion worth of insurance. Yeah that's almost as much as GEICO does in one year. AND he's not an actuary. Heck, he came to the insurance game really late in life. The point I'm trying to make is if you know how do the job well, then you'll go up. You don't have to be an actuary to do it!

[graupner]

I think actuary is a declining profession.

1) Most actuarial analysts spend their first 3-4 years doing 'labor intensive', boring, spreadsheet work.
Most of that work could be easily outsourced to cheap Indian labor.
Actuaries are not experts at doing spreadsheets. They are not the most effective at doing so.

2) There is an oversupply of candidates, and many overpaid workers. The overall wage is going to decline.

3) 'Experienced' actuaries spend their time signing the work of analysts, for an average wage of 80,000$. Reminds me of the 2003 GM worker earning 70,000$.

4) The entry-level pool of candidates is filled with greedy, not so talented people looking for an easy money job.
When there is easy money there is always a crash not far.

5) Pension work ( a major employer for actuaries) is in constant decline and is expected to keep declining.

6) FEM is going to dilute the profession by allowing most graduates to become ASA without doing exams. Hello more competition.

7) The SOA/CAS are archaic organisations ran by grey haired overconfident members.

8) Asian competition in the financial and insurance field is only starting. A chinese spreadsheet monkey is no worse than an american one. It's only much less expensive (and probably more hardworking).
Insurance is insurance. it's not hightech technology.


I speak as an ex-actuary, who left the field after realizing how boring and non stimulating was my work.
I can't honestly think of any other reason than money to become an actuary. People are pretentious, stressed and boring.
The work load is enormous and expect to work at least 45 hours a week to be an 'average performer'.
Benefits ( exam raises, performance raises, etc.) are disapearing due to the wide availability of candidates ( why pay them more, when there are so many people to do the same work).

Most comments here are either from people in their 30s, or without any experience ( students). Neither really know the real climate at entry-level.

ex-pension worker now in a totally different field.
Also, note that I'm french, so my english is decent but not perfect.

[Moon Light]

Originally Posted by graupner

I speak as an ex-actuary, who left the field after realizing how boring and non stimulating was my work.
I can't honestly think of any other reason than money to become an actuary. People are pretentious, stressed and boring.
The work load is enormous and expect to work at least 45 hours a week to be an 'average performer'.
Benefits ( exam raises, performance raises, etc.) are disapearing due to the wide availability of candidates ( why pay them more, when there are so many people to do the same work).

Most comments here are either from people in their 30s, or without any experience ( students). Neither really know the real climate at entry-level.

ex-pension worker now in a totally different field.
Also, note that I'm french, so my english is decent but not perfect.

I consider myself lucky to be an actuarial science major as opposed to psychology or finance major. In this job market, finding a job is the top priority regardless of whether it pays well or benefits are great at the entry level as long as it pertains to your field.

What do you mean by climate at entry-level? I'm not an expert but I'm willing to bet that the odds of getting a job as a qualified actuarial candidate are better than the chances of finding work if you're a qualified psychology, anthropology, linguistics, history, english etc... major. There are few majors out there right now that can compete with actuarial science majors in the job market. I am still in school right now, and when I talk to the people around me I can see that most of them don't have a job lined up after graduation. Whereas for my major, I'd say 35% of graduating actuarial science majors will end up with jobs by the end of the summer which I'm willing to bet is higher than the average college grad with no post education plans.

[LifeSucks]

Originally Posted by graupner

I think actuary is a declining profession.
ex-pension worker now in a totally different field.

What field is it? I'm just curious.

[Darkness Falls]

Originally Posted by LifeSucks

What field is it? I'm just curious.

.

Originally Posted by graupner

Hello,

I wanted to share my story with you.

I graduated in May 09 in mathematics. Got a job in August, in pension. I've done the four prelim exams and 2 interns.

I now realize that I hate actuarial work ! It sucks (to me) to be sitting all day in an office. It sucks to be a spread sheet monkey! I don't like the people I work with, and I don't like the 'actuarial philosophy'. I don't look at acomplished actuaries with respect, but rather with mockery.
The pay is definetly not as good as I tought( exam raises have been frozen at my company and the oversupply of candidates is keeping base salary low) and not worth all the boring work.
It is very hard to take more than 2 weeks of vacation to travel.
The employee benefits plan is 'greedy', with poor insurance coverage and a very cheap DC retirement plan.


I can understand that some people like that, but it's simply not for me.

So I decided to go back to school... I'm going to the coast Gard College for a full 3 years ( yeah again!) to become a coast gard.
Very different, much more active, much more risky, but probably much more what I want to do.

Did you know the base salary of a coast gard in Canada is 69K$ with 6 months of full vacation each year and a DB retirement plan??! How many beginning canadian actuaries do that, I wonder.

Conclusion is, many of us hate our job and don't admit it.
I feel liberated since I decided to change path. Don't be afraid to say you hate the actuarial field.
You will feel better!

[Sub_Zero]

Six months of vacation? Lol.

[Minnesotah]

Well graupner, sounds like your pension job sucked. Many of the things you mentioned (e.g. pretentious people, stressful yet boring work, 45 hours a week to be an 'average performer') are not the norm, based on my own experience and every other entry-level actuary I know. Have fun in the coast guard. Bon Voyage!

[Vorian Atreides]

Originally Posted by Sub_Zero

Six months of vacation? Lol.

But the other six months will be spent on a small boat cruising the Hudson bay looking for something to do. After finding out that he (or she?) has some computer skills, he (or she?) will be assigned to keeping their log up to date, which requires entries every quarter hour detailing the ship's activities during that time frame.

They just so happen to keep their log in an Excel spreadsheet.

[ditkaworshipper]

Yeah, you have to do a lot of spreadsheet work, but also deal with regulatory agencies quite a bit. Much of the work could not be outsourced overseas because I deal with other departments in my company and strong English communication skills are a must.

[JUICE]

The problem isn't that the work is boring or that there are too many candidates. The problem is that there is a lack of QUALITY candidates. As a talent, my entry-level work was never boring and always varied. Frankly, I welcome the influx of listless engineer-types without the necessary business acumen to succeed.... it makes me shine brighter and my life easier.