Does Believing In God = Being Religious?

[Mulan]

I'm not sure that was his point. His point is that the idea of God was hijacked for people to feel powerful (I would add that I think religion was founded for benefits this power can provide.)

He thinks, as I do, that people would do good things anyway (and bad things as well). Relgion provides the infrastructure for doing good deeds.

The idea of religion though gives people the idea that they are right while others are not right or, more importantly, evil. This separation of people based on belief systems seems to me to do more harm than the good the infrastructure provides.

One other point, some of the "good" provided is not all that good.

[oirg]

Originally Posted by Aaron Brachowitz

But that wasn't your point. Your point was that you abhor religion for all the evil things it does. I countered that you were ignoring all the good works. The fact that non-religious people also do good works is irrelevant.

There is no doubt that on a micro scale, there are many good deeds done by religious people. On a macro scale, however, I feel that harm done by religion far exceeds the good.

If religion did not exist, would we be living in a better world or a worse world? I think better.

[cubedbee]

Originally Posted by oirg

There is no doubt that on a micro scale, there are many good deeds done by religious people. On a macro scale, however, I feel that harm done by religion far exceeds the good.

If religion did not exist, would we be living in a better world or a worse world? I think better.

If religion, or more specifically Christianity, didn't exist would the Renaissance have happened? I have read arguments that much of the western world that we know today owes thanks to the Catholic Church.

[Aaron Brachowitz]

Originally Posted by Mulan

The idea of religion though gives people the idea that they are right while others are not right or, more importantly, evil. This separation of people based on belief systems seems to me to do more harm than the good the infrastructure provides.

I don't know any religious people who think they are right/virtuous and others are wrong/evil. The point of most religious teaching is that we are all sinners in need of God's help. Strangely, many people (e.g. you and oirg) seem to know only the "holier-than-thou" religious types, or only allow yourselves to to be aware of them.

[yoyo]

Originally Posted by Mulan

Deeply held religious thought is dangerous.

[Harry]

Originally Posted by yoyo

and your point is...

[Mulan]

Originally Posted by yoyo

Aside from this being out of context, I do believe it is true. I do think it is dangerous to have entire groups of people and nations believing a set of myths they have constructed for themselves, often insisting others believe it too, with absolutely no evidence for their beliefs than 90% of them were raised in that religion as children. Some also have a 2000 year old book that is open for interpretation having been written in ancient literary styles.

[Rockhound]

Originally Posted by oirg

There is no doubt that on a micro scale, there are many good deeds done by religious people. On a macro scale, however, I feel that harm done by religion far exceeds the good.

If religion did not exist, would we be living in a better world or a worse world? I think better.

I believe your "macro" scale is not nearly macro enough. Over the course of history religion has brought the basic tenets of an ordered civilizations: a code of laws, a code of family values, respect for children, the aged, the infirmed, charity, a sense of right and wrong.

Those things did not exist before religion.

[yoyo]

Originally Posted by Harry

and your point is...

it provides interesting backdrop for Mulan's comments on matters religious

[Moe Szyslak]

Originally Posted by CubedBee

If religion, or more specifically Christianity, didn't exist would the Renaissance have happened? I have read arguments that much of the western world that we know today owes thanks to the Catholic Church.

Religion has definitely shaped history. Has it done it for the better? Well, there have been plenty of conflicts that would have never happened. We wouldnt have the current issues with the mid-east today (at least the ones stemming from a difference in religion or culture based on that religion). People would be less divided.

Of course you can make the arguement that it does provide a moral foundation. I think laws and family values today would be a replacement of the "morals" from religion. The need for religion as a basis of morals today seems outdated. There seems to be little correlation. I know plenty of moral people who are not religious and plenty of religious people who do not have good morals.

Back the the main question, I think that believing in God through reason is not at this time really possible. To some extent you have to make a leap beyond what is known and accept what is not fully understood, there is no way of "proving" god exists, so if you believe one does exist, it takes a certain amount of faith to hold that belief. At that point, you belong to an organized religion, or you have your own custom tailored personal beliefs. IMO, the custom tailored beliefs are more true to yourself since they are not driven by what someone else tells you to do.