Looking for an entry level position

[RelentlessActuary]

Hey everyone,

I'm a May 2009 graduate and I've been looking for work for quite some time now (Actuarial work or any analytical role that can give me more experience in SQL or Excel). I graduated with degrees in Actuarial Science and Economics. I have two exams (P and FM) but no actuarial experience (some insurance experience though). I passed the exams after I graduated so it was hard to find an internship without an exam.

Unfortunately I was diagnosed with cancer in April 2010. I've undergone chemotherapy for 9 months now and I am finally done with treatment. The job market is just as bad as it was when I graduated and I can't even get an interview.

I plan to study for MFE in May and keep looking for jobs until then. Assuming I do not have a job by the end of the summer I will seriously consider going for an MBA.

Sound like a good plan? What do you guys think I should do?

[FCAZ]

First off, sorry to hear about your experience on all fronts; you've had a tough 18+ mos. As for your specific questions, I will in-turn answer with a few questions:

1) How wide has your search been and are you willing to relocate?
2) Where in the hiring process are you getting rejected? No response to your resume, no follow up after the phone interview, no offer after the in-person interview...?
3) If you want to be an actuary, I would suggest instead of the MBA, you focus on CFA and/or the CERA track. The MBA could be useful but all I see is mounting debt and no real tangible difference in pay down the road. Today, the MBA doesn't give you the "ticket" it once did.

Best of luck.

[Fianchetto]

Originally Posted by FCAZ

3) If you want to be an actuary, I would suggest instead of the MBA, you focus on CFA and/or the CERA track. The MBA could be useful but all I see is mounting debt and no real tangible difference in pay down the road. Today, the MBA doesn't give you the "ticket" it once did.

Best of luck.

I agree with this. If you can get into a top-10, or maybe top-20, MBA program then it can give an added boost and will give you options outside of the actuarial profession. However, if you aren't going to a top school then I lean against going that route today.

If you're absoutely focused on actuarial work then I like the CFA route over an MBA, and that would also give you some non-actuarial possibilities.

[FCAZ]

Originally Posted by Fianchetto

I agree with this. If you can get into a top-10, or maybe top-20, MBA program then it can give an added boost and will give you options outside of the actuarial profession. However, if you aren't going to a top school then I lean against going that route today.

If you're absoutely focused on actuarial work then I like the CFA route over an MBA, and that would also give you some non-actuarial possibilities.

Even if you get into a top 10 school, I would doubt you will see more than a 10% differential as an entry level candidate. It may offer you more non-actuarial possibilities, but have you seen the background of many of the unemployed in the past 2 years? There's a lot of MBA's out there searching. Actuarials (in almost any capacity), not so much.

[deathfrombelow]

Originally Posted by FCAZ

Even if you get into a top 10 school, I would doubt you will see more than a 10% differential as an entry level candidate. It may offer you more non-actuarial possibilities, but have you seen the background of many of the unemployed in the past 2 years? There's a lot of MBA's out there searching. Actuarials (in almost any capacity), not so much.

I'm going to disagree here. If you go to a top 10 MBA, you WILL graduate with a job unless you are the <1/100 who has some kind of MAJOR interviewing problems.

It might not be actuarial, but the school will go to GREAT lengths to get you a job at a Top 10. However, unless you have outstanding prior work experience, it's going to be hard to get into a Top 10.

[Scars]

My advice is after 18 months you should stop limiting yourself to the actuarial field. Look at underwriting, claims, etc. Get out there and get a paycheck in the industry you want.

There are lots of other options besides this. Explore them.

I'm not saying you can't hack it as an actuary, FYI. Just saying that if you've gone this long without employment, maybe it's time to reassess the overall approach.

[RelentlessActuary]

Originally Posted by FCAZ

First off, sorry to hear about your experience on all fronts; you've had a tough 18+ mos. As for your specific questions, I will in-turn answer with a few questions:

1) How wide has your search been and are you willing to relocate?
2) Where in the hiring process are you getting rejected? No response to your resume, no follow up after the phone interview, no offer after the in-person interview...?
3) If you want to be an actuary, I would suggest instead of the MBA, you focus on CFA and/or the CERA track. The MBA could be useful but all I see is mounting debt and no real tangible difference in pay down the road. Today, the MBA doesn't give you the "ticket" it once did.

Best of luck.

1) Before treatment my search radius was pretty much anywhere in the U.S. Now, I'll have to keep it within the New York or tri-state area since I'll have to go to the hospital once a month.
2) I'm not getting any response to my resume. I haven't been looking for long now, but I think the lack of experience is killing me.
3) In terms of a CFA, don't you need work experience in order to take exams 2 and 3? I agree with you about the amount of debt that an MBA will put me in. I honestly do not want to do an MBA right away because of that debt. The CERA looks like the best option for me at the moment.

We'll see how everything works out. Again, I only recently started looking for work again so hopefully things will turn around.

[RelentlessActuary]

Originally Posted by Scars

My advice is after 18 months you should stop limiting yourself to the actuarial field. Look at underwriting, claims, etc. Get out there and get a paycheck in the industry you want.

There are lots of other options besides this. Explore them.

I'm not saying you can't hack it as an actuary, FYI. Just saying that if you've gone this long without employment, maybe it's time to reassess the overall approach.

I totally agree. I'm not just looking at actuarial work. I'm looking for any type of experience with business or risk analysis and anything in the insurance field. I just need some relevant experience to eventually land a job as an actuary.

[FCAZ]

Originally Posted by RelentlessActuary

I totally agree. I'm not just looking at actuarial work. I'm looking for any type of experience with business or risk analysis and anything in the insurance field. I just need some relevant experience to eventually land a job as an actuary.

In that case, CPCU and all of the "sub" designations they offer is a good option. You signficantly increase your chances of a position in U/W and/or a Risk Analysis Group if you have some of those exams under your belt.

As for your resume, if you aren't getting any responses, I suggest 2 options:
a) Post it here for us to critique
b) Call DWSimpson or similar recruiter and have them look at it

Neither of these options will cost you a dime.

[silverfox]

Originally Posted by deathfrombelow

If you go to a top 10 MBA, you WILL graduate with a job unless you are the <1/100 who has some kind of MAJOR interviewing problems.

False. Those guys are really picky and some would rather live with their parents than to take a job that pays <100k.