post some hands to discuss

[gosuruss]

Originally Posted by LifeIsAPoissonProcess

I think ElkY had the same idea.

if it's so easy for elky, should be easy for you too.

elky is down 20k on PTR too. i guess he doesn't try to be profitable either. FYI, i think jpette shipped 70k a week ago. what is that?, like your life savings?

[LifeIsAPoissonProcess]

Lol, I think he's got over a million in online cashes, and more in live play too. I'm assuming the rest is trollin'. I'm not bashing jpette's play, I'm just asking about his cash games. I don't really care how much he's won or lost. If I had a lot of money, I'd probably play high stakes poker without being results oriented at all. Seems all the poker forums are quick to the offense.

[gosuruss]

Originally Posted by LifeIsAPoissonProcess

I think your preflop play and flop play are more important decisions. If you 3-bet pre, you may be able to get some folds, or represent a stronger hand, or at least put your opponent up for a difficult decision if he knows your are polarizing your range here. A raise here on the flop will get you a lot more information than trying to guess at your opponents draws on later streets, and give your information cheaper than trying to bluff on the river.

As played, I really like your river bet. He could have been drawing with something like ATs, or a combo draw that could have hit the queen or nine, but is scared away by the board pairing on the river.

I prefer flatting preflop. if i 3b, The fish is not likely to fold, and i am not too thrilled about playing with 6 high when i don't feel like i have much fold equity on the flop were he to call. And certainly if I did 3bet, the first raiser would not think I had a polarized range here, due to the fact the fish is not likely to fold. He would expect me to have a merged range (including hands like KQ, KJs, AJ, 99). So, in position, behind a regular and then a fish, I expect to show more of a profit by flatting. By flatting, the initial preflop raiser will have to choose whether to bet with two to act, and one of those is a fish (read: doesn't fold). He will likely decide that his fold equity is not very high on a lot of boards, check, and give up. This allows me to pick up the pot very often when both check, and the intial preflop raiser will fold very often and the fish should fold a good bit too, and I have position on the turn if he doesn't.

you do present an idea worth discussing, raising the flop and getting it in. I think you may show a profit, but I don't know if it shows a higher profit than flatting. Consider the fact that if you raise, and the reg comes over top of you, his range will look something like: QJ, KTss, T9ss, ATss, AKss, QQ, JJ, 66. Against this range you are not even 40%, I threw AA in there for kicks, but I honestly feel he would and should be folding it if I raised here..

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

25,740 games 0.001 secs 25,740,000 games/sec

Board: Qs Js 6h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.011% 38.00% 00.01% 9781 3.00 { 6s5s }
Hand 1: 61.989% 61.98% 00.01% 15953 3.00 { AA, QQ-JJ, 66, AsKs, AsTs, KsTs, QJs, Ts9s, QJo }

Going back to the fact I don't expect him to cbet light on this board due to his low fold equity, I actually consider his range to be very strong. So i think he bet/folds sometimes, but not as much as you think. Keep in mind, we are 110bb deep. Getting it all in at 38% is terrible for your expected value.

The other problem is, if I raise, and the reg folds, and the fish happens to call, I honestly feel like he will play fit or fold on the turn. If he has a better flush draw, and the flush hits, he will check to me, i will bet, and we will get it all in with me drawing dead. If the flush doesn't hit, then he stations off any queen he had on the turn and I get a lot of money in behind. I'm not saying this results in an unprofitable overall situation, but rather my hand isn't really that strong and raising doesn't present me with a lot of profitable opportunities.

[gosuruss]

Originally Posted by LifeIsAPoissonProcess

Lol, I think he's got over a million in online cashes, and more in live play too. I'm assuming the rest is trollin'. I'm not bashing jpette's play, I'm just asking about his cash games. I don't really care how much he's won or lost. If I had a lot of money, I'd probably play high stakes poker without being results oriented at all. Seems all the poker forums are quick to the offense.

i know elky is a monster at poker. I was simply pointing out how silly it makes you look to judge a player by 1 PTR page. A quick analysis of Jpettes ptr page would show that the only reason he's down 200k is because he lost 220k at 25/50. There is something called variance in poker, especially headsup. Check out durrrr's ptr page, he lost over 60 buyins at 500/1000. That doesn't make him not a good player.

Sorry for being so quick to the offense, you basically came in this thread, quoted the hands stuff posted, and basically said they were all bad plays without justifying those opinions.

You then proceeded to correlate your opinion that he makes bad plays with his PTR page and surmise that he doesn't play poker to make a profit.

This is all the while having played poker 1/100th as much as him.

Some things I just can't let fly.

[Stuff]

my bankroll is from poker. i have deposited $50 once and never had to redeposit.elky is good but ran really good vs me. i still think i have an edge vs him hu in cash games. i would play him anytime again hu

[LifeIsAPoissonProcess]

I was certainly not doubting his abilities, especially looking him up on OPR also. 40 Buy-ins is a big swing though. Sure, durrrr has lost over 60 buyins at 1k, but he's still profitable on ftp over the long run through other games. I didn't mean to come off as a douchey know it all, but he does seem to be feeding the cash games with the tournament wins.

[Stuff]

i made my bankroll in cash games.you do realise ptr started tracking in sept 2008 and cash games existed before that?also ptr is far from being 100% accurate.but like russ said, we can always play hu if you want

[LifeIsAPoissonProcess]

no money hu. everyone's solid.

[rawl316]

I think ptr has me as a break-even player. It's missing around 30k-50k hands on me. I'm not killing the game by any means, but I do win.

There is also no way to track rush poker, although did not have much success with that

[gosuruss]

MOAR hands stuff!

i've actually found PTR relatively accurate over the long run. I think it's off by + or - 10% or so if you have a solid sample. this would obviously change if you spike up in stakes though, but for someone playing consistent stakes i think its rather accurate.