Battle of the Bands VI

[glassjaws]

Originally Posted by Abstract Actuary

I just think it's funny that you are taking such issue with the lax rules when the issue you have is mostly being exploited by you.

That had a lot to do with what I said.

If you're going to continue to be all butt hurt about my songs, let me know and you can skip them and not hurt your Wicker Park cred.

[Abstract Actuary]

Wow, just found a ridiculous song from the 70s I love. The band hit 50 on the charts! Ugh. I'm sure everyone has heard this song, though, so I would have been docked points for that.

[vividox]

Originally Posted by Abstract Actuary

That's a valid point/question. You can surely agree that some songs in the anti-cookie-cutter genre are more quintessentially anti-cookie-cutter than others?

Definitely. "I'm an emo kid, non-conforming as can be, you'd be non-conforming too if you were just like me."

[Triweasel]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

You guys suck. This is one of his best songs off his best solo album. Most of his recent stuff is just too noisy for me. I guess I would have gotten more points for something like "Ampersand"? Or should I have gone for the LCD and submitted his minor hit "Oh Daddy"? ( )

i have a couple of his solo albums from 90s and i like some of his songs, but mostly the slower moodier ones. actually haven't heard anything recent from him

[vividox]

Originally Posted by Jonas Grumby

You're running a contest in which people try to come up with music that interests others. Some people are less focused on scoring, some more so, but in general we've been trying to submit songs that will at least catch someone's ear. You also already know that most of the people here don't regularly listen to hard metal...and yet you go ahead and submit it in the hopes that someone will like it.

Well, not exactly. Metal has a lot of complete horse shit in it. I submit good metal in the hopes that some of you will discover that the metal they play on the radio station is horrible but the genre can yield itself to some of the most invoking, melodic, amazing music on the planet. Perhaps that's a naive hope.

On the flip side, there have been good songs from other genres that have been submitted that have impressed me. "Break of Reality" in this round is an example of that. It's a genre I've never listened to but it's got the musical elements that would make any genre enjoyable.

My "beef", if you will, is that there seems to be a substantial quantity of bad stuff that is submitted every round, too. It's submitted just because it's in the style of the person who submits it, not because it's good. It's almost like this is becoming a style competition rather than a goodness-of-music competition.

Originally Posted by Jonas Grumby

That's fine, but it doesn't make people "musically retarded" if they don't recognize Kamelot's use of "unconventional rhythms," or aren't aware that brawls have erupted over whether having keyboards turns a metal band into pussies, or don't get their panties in a bunch because someone soloed in mixolydian. In fact, I'm sure there are loads of knowledgeable classical music listeners/players who think metal is for musically ignorant, emotionally infantilized idiots...and they'd also be wrong. [they may also think Glenn Danzig sings a lot like Ian Astbury, which is what I happen to be thinking right now]

If music is good, it's good, regardless of genre. Just because I don't normally listen to country doesn't mean I can't tell a good country song from Gretchen Wilson.

Originally Posted by Jonas Grumby

Anyway, it sounded cookie-cutter to me, so that apparently makes me at a minimum metal-ignorant, and so be it. But that's the kind of group your songs are going to, right?

There's really no way I can convey the problem I have with the arguments here. Not just from you, from the whole thread in general. I realize that a lot of my points seem hypocritical and contradicting, but there's really no way I can express my points without going into a long-winded diatribe that uses way too many analogies and metaphors.

I suppose if I'm not going to commit 100% to my own conversation, I should just not bring it up in the first place and stop stirring the pot. The problem I have with that is I am so insanely passionate about music and it doesn't take much to trigger that into a frenzy.

[Triweasel]

Originally Posted by vividox

You've got to be trolling me. There is no way a musically-intelligent person can find Kamelot to be cookie-cutter metal. I can't even... wow. Seriously?

i didn't say it wasn't musically interesting, just that i didn't enjoy listening to it. not sure why you don't understand how some people have different tastes in music than you do. it seems to be a recurring source of annoyance for you.

[vividox]

Originally Posted by Triweasel

i didn't say it wasn't musically interesting, just that i didn't enjoy listening to it. not sure why you don't understand how some people have different tastes in music than you do. it seems to be a recurring source of annoyance for you.

I think that's the point of frustration that is so hard for me to explain. I simply don't believe that music is as subjective as people make it out to be. I feel like "music is subjective" is an excuse at times. I don't fault someone for listening to Rebecca Black if they recognize it's terrible and do it just for kicks, but I do fault them if they listen to it because they legitimately think it's good.

It's like someone asserting that Bud Light is the best beer ever or McDonald's serves up the best burger ever. I have no problem with someone drinking a Bud Light or eating a McDonald's burger, but don't push it off like it's quality. It's not.

[Gentle Giant]

Angry cactus is ANGRY!

[ORLYLOL]

Originally Posted by vividox

I think that's the point of frustration that is so hard for me to explain. I simply don't believe that music is as subjective as people make it out to be. I feel like "music is subjective" is an excuse at times. I don't fault someone for listening to Rebecca Black if they recognize it's terrible and do it just for kicks, but I do fault them if they listen to it because they legitimately think it's good.

It's like someone asserting that Bud Light is the best beer ever or McDonald's serves up the best burger ever. I have no problem with someone drinking a Bud Light or eating a McDonald's burger, but don't push it off like it's quality. It's not.

I couldn't agree more. I listen to quite a bit of music that I consider shitty, but is still fun (thought not Rebecca Black, Bury Your Dead is my best example). Some music is just amazing even if you don't like it simply because the musicians involved and the structure of the songs is so well put together.

[OddSox]

Originally Posted by vividox

Even this song in particular is not cookie-cutter. Unconventional rhythms, super-layering the the chorus, synth parts all over the place. That's not cookie-cutter. That's showing the cookie-cutters exactly what they are leaving out.

This is what you notice because you listen to a lot of metal. The things I notice that make me think 'typical metal song'... four-bar intro, speed-metal rhythm guitar, lots of thirds in the guitar parts, vocals are in a similar style to a lot of other metal vocals. Not saying that's bad, but a lot of these things are common conventions in the genre and not everyone who listens will have the same reaction to them.

Also, verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-instrumental-chorus is a song structure that gets used a ton (and if you take out the instrumental, it incorporates a lot of genres.)

I don't know if Jonas or Triweasel noticed the same things, but those were some of things I can come up with that would make me understand 'cookie-cutter' as a description, even if cookie-cutter could probably be used to describe anything with some sort of conventional song structure.