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  #1  
Old 07-21-2011, 10:10 AM
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Default CAS Election Discussion

There are 4 issues plus the Board of Directors vote (ignoring the Soviet style President Elect "vote").

There are 8 people running for the Board of Directors (4 get elected)


Meet The Candidates (Note: PDF)

Candidates Respond to Questions

Candidates Bios and Issue Statements (Note:PDF)

Candidates
(I have summarized the info I have read so far ... this is only my interpretation of what they said, so read the documents above for the candidates words.)

Shawna Ackerman (Chief Actuary, CEA)
  • Associate Voting: Yes
  • Discipline Change: Yes
  • Open Board Meetings: Yes
  • Allow Public Board Dissent: Yes
  • Mutual Recognition with China/India: Yes, with same standards as UK
  • Recognize CIA Exam Waivers: Yes
  • Mutual Recognition with CIA: Yes, with same standards as UK


Steven Armstong (Senior Actuary, Allstate)
  • Associate Voting: No
  • Discipline Change: Yes
  • Open Board Meetings: Yes
  • Allow Public Board Dissent: Yes
  • Mutual Recognition with China/India: Yes, which same standards as UK
  • Recognize CIA Exam Waivers: Yes, but only if university meet "very high bar"
  • Mutual Recognition with CIA: Yes


Kevin Burke (Actuary, Alfa Mutual)
  • Associate Voting: Yes
  • Discipline Change: No
  • Open Board Meetings: Yes
  • Allow Public Board Dissent: Yes
  • Mutual Recognition with China/India: No
  • Recognize CIA Exam Waivers: No
  • Mutual Recognition with CIA: No


Richard Easton (AVP & Actuary, CNA)
  • Associate Voting: No
  • Discipline Change: Unclear
  • Open Board Meetings: Yes
  • Allow Public Board Dissent: Yes
  • Mutual Recognition with China/India: No
  • Recognize CIA Exam Waivers: No
  • Mutual Recognition with CIA: No


Annette Goodreau (Goodreau Doll LLC)
  • Associate Voting: No
  • Discipline Change: No
  • Open Board Meetings: Yes
  • Allow Public Board Dissent: No
  • Mutual Recognition with China/India: Dependent on Treaty
  • Recognize CIA Exam Waivers: Maybe
  • Mutual Recognition with CIA: Yes, as response to FEM, to prevent Americans from using Canadian course credit to skip exams


Nasser Hadidi (Professor, UW)
  • Associate Voting: Leaning No
  • Discipline Change: Yes, but would not guarantee yes as board member until final form is seen
  • Open Board Meetings: Yes
  • Allow Public Board Dissent: No
  • Mutual Recognition with China/India: No
  • Recognize CIA Exam Waivers: No
  • Mutual Recognition with CIA: No, until CIA membership requirements are more clear


Jim Mertz (Chief Actuary, Hanover)
  • Associate Voting: No
  • Discipline Change: No
  • Open Board Meetings: Yes
  • Allow Public Board Dissent: Yes
  • Mutual Recognition with China/India: No
  • Recognize CIA Exam Waivers: No
  • Mutual Recognition with CIA: No

Deborah Rosenberg (Consulting Actuary, RSM McGladrey)
  • Associate Voting: Refused to answer
  • Discipline Change: Refused to answer
  • Open Board Meetings: Yes
  • Allow Public Board Dissent: No
  • Mutual Recognition with China/India: Dependent on Treaty
  • Recognize CIA Exam Waivers: Unclear
  • Mutual Recognition with CIA: Possibly, dependent on details


Issues

Voters Guide to ACAS Issues

1. Associate Voting Rights

This would give 5 year Associates the right to vote. Presently this seems to be about 66% of the associate population, and associates would be somewhere between 20-25% of the total voting pool.

2. Associates allowed on Board

This would give 5 year Associates the right to serve on the board. Proposal 1 must pass for this vote to matter.

Info on Joint Discipline Proposal

3. Joint Discipline Process

This would authorize the board to set up a joint discipline process shared by all American actuarial organizations. The rules of the makeup of the panel are:

a. At least one Disciplinary Panel member shall be appointed by the Council representatives for each of the Party organizations of which the Subject Actuary is a member.

b. The Disciplinary Panel shall have majority members in each of the Party organizations of which the Subject Actuary is a member, unless the Council, in its sole discretion, determines that compliance with this requirement is not feasible.

c. Each Disciplinary Panel member shall be a member of at least one of the Party organizations of which the Subject Actuary is a member.

All but 1 of the members of the panel must agree to discipline before it is imposed.

There are limited appeal rights (material procedural error or new evidence).


4. Delete Archaic wording in Bylaws

Remove "Affiliates shall be entitled to attend meetings of the Casualty Actuarial Society and to participate at Society functions." since the CAS doesn't restrict meeting attendance.
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Last edited by MountainHawk; 07-21-2011 at 01:39 PM..
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:20 PM
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I agree with your assessment of the candidate's positions
I'm struggling with how to align my own vote, as my personal positions are mixed. I'm going to have to decide what's most important and vote that way I guess.

My positions:

Associate Voting: No - I am okay with reduced Dues for ACAS members to reflect that they don't have voting rights.

Discipline Change: No – The incestuous relationships in the SOA and AAA boards concern me, and by agreeing to this, we turn over our fate to that same group of individuals who have a different vision for the future of actuaries than I have.

Open Board Meetings: Yes

Allow Public Board Dissent: Yes. Those supporting the board are free to engage in a public discussion with the dissenter.

Mutual Recognition with China/India: Not sure. I need to know more about their systems, but I would want to know that the China/India Actuaries are sufficiently educated and have a sufficiently rigorous validation of that education.

Recognize CIA Exam Waivers: No - Waivers could allow US candidates Fellowship in the CAS, in effect passing FEM but only for Canadian schools.

Mutual Recognition with CIA: Yes - This pretty much eliminates the US incentive to seek an alternate path to Fellowship. They will need to attain their FCIA prior to getting recognition by the US. To me, this is more about making it easy for individuals to practice in both the US and Canada and does not have the same perverse incentives that the exam waivers have.

Issue 4. Delete Archaic wording in Bylaws: - Yes. Although I have to ask, what good is an affiliate membership if this is true. Do we even need it?

Last edited by Basso; 07-21-2011 at 02:40 PM..
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:52 PM
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I was a strong supporter of voting rights for ACAS when I was an ACAS, so it would seem hypocritical of me to change my mind now. I don't think I support ACAS on the board though.

I think I'm ok with the Discipline change, though I could be convinced otherwise. The rules now ensure that no CAS member could be punished without the majority vote of CAS members on the panel, as well as agreement from actuaries in other disciplines. That doesn't seem bad to me.

Open board meetings and public dissent are no brainer yes for me.

I don't like mutual recognition that much, but I can see some limited value. FCIA are FCAS most of the time anyway, except if they get university exam credit, so I don't understand why we'd go that way.

I think Mr. Burke, Mr. Easton, and Mr. Mertz are very likely to get 3 of my votes, and the only one I've eliminated is Ms. Rosenburg, mainly because I think consultants are overrepresented in leadership and because she refused to answer the ACAS rights questions AND would not allow public dissent from the board.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:38 PM
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Is public dissent the same thing as whining on the AO about a board issue?
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox View Post
Is public dissent the same thing as whining on the AO about a board issue?
No, I think it means having individual votes noted (on request) in the minutes.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:00 PM
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OK. I thought they were trying to prevent dissenting board members from stirring up the actuarial community using the AO when they believe the board decision was a bad one.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox View Post
OK. I thought they were trying to prevent dissenting board members from stirring up the actuarial community using the AO when they believe the board decision was a bad one.
I think that is already frowned on.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:11 PM
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Some quick comments (acknowledging that I am not a CAS member):

In 2008, SOA passed a Bylaws amendment allowing 5-year Associates to vote in Board elections but not for Bylaws amendments and not to serve on the Board. Those voting Associates are about two-thirds of all Associates and about one-third of all potential and actual voters in Board elections. I think it was a good change for the SOA and would be for the CAS, too.

I believe that CAS, like SOA and AAA, is an Illinois not-for-profit corporation. If I'm right about that, then Board members have a right under Illinois law to have their dissenting votes reflected in the minutes. Nobody can prevent that. The SOA in 2010 adopted a policy forbidding Board members from disclosing their votes (except for that Illinois law exception). I think that's ridiculous. I hope the CAS doesn't head down that same foolish road. Regular members have a right to know how Board members vote on the issues. Why not?

Bruce
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:15 PM
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I don't think it's anything offical Bruce, it was just a question to the candidates in one of the links, probably due to the SOA issues/changes recently.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
No, I think it means having individual votes noted (on request) in the minutes.
In my response, I was thinking about things like whining on the AO or setting up a website like Tom Bakos has done. My initial thought was, how would I show public dissent, rent a billboard in Montgomery, AL that says my fellow board members made a wrong decision?
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