Dear Atheists

[abt5]

Originally Posted by crabber

Just because you grew up in a Christian environment doesn't mean that you used to believe in god, and were subsequently set free by your (superior) reasoning ability.

the guy from The Atheist Experience was a fundamentalist christian for like 26 years

[Noddy]

Originally Posted by abt5

the guy from The Atheist Experience was a fundamentalist christian for like 26 years

imo Matt Dillahunty has superior reasoning abilities ...



(too)

[Noddy]

Originally Posted by crabber

I am pleased to hear an acknowledgement from an atheist that beliefs are largely outside of personal (conscious) control. This is a fundamental belief (not to overuse the word) of mine, which is why I now think many atheists are bigger hypocrites than many Christians (and I used to be very hard on Christians).

Please don't misunderstand, I didn't make my position very clear.

Take Matt Dillahunty and our own Danjew for instance ( and myself fwiw ); once 'true believers' to be sure and now atheists. I don't believe that our range of empathy has in anyway changed due to our non-godbotism.

[JohnLocke]

I personally believe that people generally tend towards whatever religious view that gives them the most comfort or fulfills their emotional needs, then work backwards to convince themselves that their beliefs are "rational" or at least have a coherent framework (in their mind, not necessarily to an outsider). This follows from my belief that the average person wants to maximize their happiness without respect to "reality" (I know I am susceptible to this, which is why I try not to think about some things that aren't comfortable, like death, on a daily basis).

[crabber]

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

I personally believe that people generally tend towards whatever religious view that gives them the most comfort or fulfills their emotional needs, then work backwards to convince themselves that their beliefs are "rational" or at least have a coherent framework (in their mind, not necessarily to an outsider). This follows from my belief that the average person wants to maximize their happiness without respect to "reality" (I know I am susceptible to this, which is why I try not to think about some things that aren't comfortable, like death, on a daily basis).

Exactly.

[TheGillotine]

Originally Posted by Mel-o-rama

Believing in God does help with the grieving process, especially if you also happen to believe in an afterlife. Because then, this separation is only a temporary state.

I don't think you can make this as an informed statement unless you've been through the grieving process both with and without belief in God. I've gone through the death of close family members under both circumstances. The grieving process isn't as different as you'd think. If I were to hazard a guess as to why this is I would say it's because grieving is primarily an emotional, not rational, process. In other words, the pain is the same, the words you tell yourself to comfort yourself differ only slightly.

Originally Posted by Mel

Being a strong God believer, myself, I would like to take a moment to speak on behalf of our atheist friends. I don't think they're trying to destroy our hopes (though it would really suck if there weren't an afterlife). Rather, I think they're trying their best to enlighten us. I really enjoy our conversations, and these atheists have given me a lot to consider. I would never want them to be silent.

But I also wanted to point out that no one can ever destroy our hopes. Ultimately, we choose how we believe. If there is an afterlife, no one can say or do anything to destroy it. It's not one of those things that disappears when people stop believing in it.

Thankee. The afterlife isn't a big thing for me. I don't expect anything, though. I certainly wouldn't mind being pleasantly surprised.

Originally Posted by crabber

Just because you grew up in a Christian environment doesn't mean that you used to believe in god, and were subsequently set free by your (superior) reasoning ability.

And again, it's got nothing to do with reasoning ability and everything to do with motivation and self-awareness.

[abt5]

thanks for posting the same xkcd strip for the 23420934th time

[Atheist Man]

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

I personally believe that people generally tend towards whatever religious view that gives them the most comfort or fulfills their emotional needs, then work backwards to convince themselves that their beliefs are "rational" or at least have a coherent framework (in their mind, not necessarily to an outsider). This follows from my belief that the average person wants to maximize their happiness without respect to "reality" (I know I am susceptible to this, which is why I try not to think about some things that aren't comfortable, like death, on a daily basis).

The problem is, most people are generally pretty bad at figuring out what will bring them the most long-term happiness. So often we are all guilty of trading off long-term happiness for a short term thrill, or a temporary relief from pain.

And this is what I think religion does. It can make you feel better, right now, about yourself, and it can provide comfort in times of loss and strength in times of weakness. But I believe I can find all of that stuff inside myself, and by doing so I get all the comfort and strength of religion, with all the bad stuff like forcing myself to accept things for which there is no evidence, and to pass up on experiencing wonderful things which give great pleasure in moderation.

I choose to believe this as an axiom, because it seems to me to self-evident: You cannot maximize true happiness by believing a lie.

[abt5]

pot works better imo

[JohnLocke]

Originally Posted by Atheist Man

The problem is, most people are generally pretty bad at figuring out what will bring them the most long-term happiness. So often we are all guilty of trading off long-term happiness for a short term thrill, or a temporary relief from pain.

I don't disagree with this necessarily, other than to say that if people can't make themselves happy, I sure as heck can't.

I choose to believe this as an axiom, because it seems to me to self-evident: You cannot maximize true happiness by believing a lie.

Some people derive more utility from "truth" than others, so they might not be as motivated as you to find it. Do you ever read political forums when people start melting down once their beliefs are questioned or ridicule those who express dissenting opinions? I highly doubt that they do that because of some quest for "truth". If that was true I think the political forum would be much more civil. Changes in belief systems (not just religious, but even political, sexual, etc) have a large emotional cost. Someone who is happy with their belief system will not bear the costs unless they have a motivation. There are actions I certainly would never do just to because of the emotional costs I would bear. (Ex: I would never be with a girl who has "slept around" even though I don't think there is anything wrong with being sexually liberated. I have a very "romanticized" view of relationships. )