The SOA leadership has reached a new low.

[SamTheBellhop]

Originally Posted by tbakos

Hey, Bruce is NYLife and I was Guardian when doing significant volunteer work on E&E committees - involving travel to exam setting sessions and grading sessions. My SoA Board service was while I was an independent consultant.

Clearly, I believe, there are some employers who are not accepting of professional volunteer activities and some that are. I am not sure one can categorize any particular type of employer s being universally one or the other.

I believe that the most influential thing encouraging or discouraging volunteerism is individual preference.

Agreed. I've heard that some companies have recently been less encouraging of giving PTO for volunteer work/meeting attendance/grading sessions than they have in the past, but as I said above I would be happy if both and I and the above poster were wrong in our observations.

[secondlife]

This is what happened (my own opinion)

An error of fact in the post has been deleted. There may be other errors in the post. - Mod1

• Bruce wanted everything to be one person show!
• Lots of people realized that this during his presidency
• Bruce sued AAA
• Tom spun the story to make Bruce look good.
• Tom decided to run for P/E
• Tom and Bruce gathered some support from new FSAs using FEM crap.
• Nobody wants Bruce to be back at SOA, so Tom was kept off the ballot.
• Voting members didn't care about Tom or Bruce or their boycott (or may be very few <100 cared)

Now, Tom and Bruce are trying to change the procedure that was created by Bruce.

May be I am making things up, but if the former SOA president keep attacking one of the most active E&E volunteers (i.e. Mary Hardy) why can't lowly me make up things!

I always doubted Bruce's openness crap, he is open when it is to his advantage.

I hate bringing these higher level politics to the exam takers and new members, just to get a shock value and to make them feel like Bruce is on their side.

People nothing new happened. Bruce screwed things up. People will remember him as the guy who sued AAA, not for all his volunteer work.

I can't believe, I don't like Bruce this much.! BTW I don't care what Bruce did in his twenties (things like getting his FSA at 21 or 22, getting into trouble with law etc), I think most don't care of these, it is just he is someone who doesn't know anything about compromising or diplomacy.

[bokiz333]

lol, somebody's bitter.

[tbakos]

Originally Posted by secondlife

This is what happened (my own opinion)

An error of fact in the post has been deleted. There may be other errors in the post. - Mod1

• Bruce wanted everything to be one person show!
• Lots of people realized that this during his presidency
• Bruce sued AAA
• Tom spun the story to make Bruce look good.
• Tom decided to run for P/E
• Tom and Bruce gathered some support from new FSAs using FEM crap.
• Nobody wants Bruce to be back at SOA, so Tom was kept off the ballot.
• Voting members didn't care about Tom or Bruce or their boycott (or may be very few <100 cared)

Now, Tom and Bruce are trying to change the procedure that was created by Bruce.

May be I am making things up, but if the former SOA president keep attacking one of the most active E&E volunteers (i.e. Mary Hardy) why can't lowly me make up things!

I always doubted Bruce's openness crap, he is open when it is to his advantage.

I hate bringing these higher level politics to the exam takers and new members, just to get a shock value and to make them feel like Bruce is on their side.

People nothing new happened. Bruce screwed things up. People will remember him as the guy who sued AAA, not for all his volunteer work.

I can't believe, I don't like Bruce this much.! BTW I don't care what Bruce did in his twenties (things like getting his FSA at 21 or 22, getting into trouble with law etc), I think most don't care of these, it is just he is someone who doesn't know anything about compromising or diplomacy.

Huh? So, it is not about FEM? How do you supose so many people missed that?

What spin? Mine or yours?

You have given a very good example of why one person's opinion should be given very little weight.

[Danny Boy]

While I strongly support Bruce and Bakos on their crusade against FEM, I don't want the community to forget that the ASA modules are a result of the Schobel crusade. So if Bruce is concerned with the dumbing down of the actuarial credential then he needs to look in the mirror and realize he played a huge role.

[campbell]

Originally Posted by Danny Boy

While I strongly support Bruce and Bakos on their crusade against FEM, I don't want the community to forget that the ASA modules are a result of the Schobel crusade. So if Bruce is concerned with the dumbing down of the actuarial credential then he needs to look in the mirror and realize he played a huge role.

There's a difference between putting the ASA level back to where it had been before (and, indeed, the ASA "level" has been all over the place in the history of the SOA) and replacing the ASA level with a college degree.

[Danny Boy]

Originally Posted by campbell

There's a difference between putting the ASA level back to where it had been before (and, indeed, the ASA "level" has been all over the place in the history of the SOA) and replacing the ASA level with a college degree.

Yeah - I know. Did I give the impression I didn't understand the distinction? The similarity is that both methods water down the credential.

[silverfox]

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[bdschobel]

Originally Posted by Danny Boy

While I strongly support Bruce and Bakos on their crusade against FEM, I don't want the community to forget that the ASA modules are a result of the Schobel crusade. So if Bruce is concerned with the dumbing down of the actuarial credential then he needs to look in the mirror and realize he played a huge role.

This is quite unfair. I never proposed on-line modules at any level. They were proposed by others, and I (one of many) supported the idea. The execution has not lived up to expectations, but the notion of learning certain material on-line is not inherently bad. In any case, attributing this idea, or its implementation, to a "crusade" on my part is simply way off the mark. Where do you get this stuff?

Bruce

[Danny Boy]

Originally Posted by bdschobel

This is quite unfair. I never proposed on-line modules at any level. They were proposed by others, and I (one of many) supported the idea. The execution has not lived up to expectations, but the notion of learning certain material on-line is not inherently bad. In any case, attributing this idea, or its implementation, to a "crusade" on my part is simply way off the mark. Where do you get this stuff?

Bruce

Fair enough. I stick by the crusade comment because of your strong vocal support, but I was incorrect to infer the modules were a result of your recommendation or that you proposed the idea. It's still hypocritical in respect to the watering down debate, IMO. I see the modules as precursors to FEM - the SOA demonstrating (and failing miserably if you ask me) that educational goals can be accomplished through non-traditional methods.