Tax Burden and the services you receive

[ShebaPoe]

Originally Posted by sweetiepie

I think you're forgetting your other favorite enemy, the oligarchs. Other developed nations have more government control, and yet their healthcare systems are much simpler, much much cheaper, and just as good. Americans are uniquely wasteful.

You are uniquely ignorant of healthcare in the US. Here are some questions for you:

Which country produces the most new drugs?
Which country has the most R&D jobs in medicine?

You are an ignorant uninformed goon.

[Academic Actuary]

Originally Posted by ShebaPoe

You are uniquely ignorant of healthcare in the US. Here are some questions for you:

Which country produces the most new drugs?
Which country has the most R&D jobs in medicine?

You are an ignorant uninformed goon.

To get some idea about the magnitude of R&D in relation to the health care budget, all I could find were some 2005 figures for the US; 95 billion in total, of which 55 billion was private sector. The total was about 5% of what was spent on healthcare and about .75% of GDP for the year. Even if every other country spent zero on medical R&D it is a stretch to argue that R&D is the reason why the US spends 5% of GDP more than whoever is in second.

I would also like to know how much of private sector research deals with legitimate medical conditions as opposed to industry created psycholigical disorders.

[ShebaPoe]

What's a legitimate medical condition?

Or some "illegitimate" medical conditions?

[ShebaPoe]

Originally Posted by asdfasdf

Rule of law is usually required, what's that worth to ya?

The US has had the rule of law, with rare exception, in most of its 220 year history. Only in the last 50 years has the government grown to be a leviathan. The rule of law, preserving individual rights, is a lot cheaper than we Americans are paying. Most of our government spending is devoted to (1) enriching and caring for old people and (2) using the military to defend our currency's role in global trade.

Neither (1) nor (2) are necessary for the rule of law to take hold.


I believe you are capable of understanding this, and not resorting to "if we don;t have massive federal spending we'll have to build prisons to house all the crazy poor people who come over the walls of the wealthy's compounds" After the civil war we Americans laid down a nationwide rail network, invented mass production of the auto and invented airplanes. We also produced an 88% literacy rate. All this without much federal spending, and all under effective rule of law. Perfect? Nah, people can't buiuld anything perfect. But the rule of law was preserved just fine with teeny-tiny governments.

[ditkaworshipper]

Sheba, the rail comparison is pretty ridiculous to me. IIRC, the government gave away a 10 mile wide stretch of land grants to private parties to build railroads. Massive wealth transfer anyone?

Auto and airplanes are good examples, but rail was heavily dependent on government wealth transfers from Native Americans (yes, I realize that they didn't explicitly recognize property rights, but it was essentially their land).

[ShebaPoe]

Originally Posted by ditkaworshipper

Sheba, the rail comparison is pretty ridiculous to me. IIRC, the government gave away a 10 mile wide stretch of land grants to private parties to build railroads. Massive wealth transfer anyone?

Auto and airplanes are good examples, but rail was heavily dependent on government wealth transfers from Native Americans (yes, I realize that they didn't explicitly recognize property rights, but it was essentially their land).

So your argument is, essentially, "we stole the land from Native Americans" which is a government intrusion into the marketplace, and therefore we did not accomplish those things without substantial federal government action?

Just want to be sure I understand you.

[Incredible Hulctuary]

Originally Posted by ShebaPoe

You are uniquely ignorant of healthcare in the US. Here are some questions for you:

Which country produces the most new drugs?
Which country has the most R&D jobs in medicine?

The US regulations surrounding the testing and production of drugs effectively force foreign drug companies to establish a major US presence if they want to sell to the US, and they shield domestic companies from having to seriously compete against drugs made overseas. So it's not surprising that other countries with less drug protectionism would find it more difficult to grow their own pharmaceutical sector.

[Academic Actuary]

Originally Posted by ShebaPoe

What's a legitimate medical condition?

Or some "illegitimate" medical conditions?

Something borderline illegitimate is ADD. When I was a kid (I know that is a cliche) it was unheard of. I find it hard to believe that the mass prescription of anti anxiety, anti depressant mood altering drugs has improved the psychological well being of the country.

[Eimon Gnome]

Originally Posted by ShebaPoe

The US has had the rule of law, with rare exception, in most of its 220 year history. Only in the last 50 years has the government grown to be a leviathan. The rule of law, preserving individual rights, is a lot cheaper than we Americans are paying. Most of our government spending is devoted to (1) enriching and caring for old people and (2) using the military to defend our currency's role in global trade.

Neither (1) nor (2) are necessary for the rule of law to take hold.


I believe you are capable of understanding this, and not resorting to "if we don;t have massive federal spending we'll have to build prisons to house all the crazy poor people who come over the walls of the wealthy's compounds" After the civil war we Americans laid down a nationwide rail network, invented mass production of the auto and invented airplanes. We also produced an 88% literacy rate. All this without much federal spending, and all under effective rule of law. Perfect? Nah, people can't buiuld anything perfect. But the rule of law was preserved just fine with teeny-tiny governments.

You skimmed over the part about the 12 state insolvencies in the railroad building era. It didn't really work out all that well, Sheba. You have rose colored history goggles.

[ShebaPoe]

Originally Posted by Eimon Gnome

You skimmed over the part about the 12 state insolvencies in the railroad building era. It didn't really work out all that well, Sheba. You have rose colored history goggles.

Not so much. I don't pretend reconstruction was a fun time. I don't pretend Henry Flagler was a nice guy, or pretend he didn't send his railroad crew out into a hurricane. (he did this. many died.) Flagler didn't lose sleep, I'm sure, nor did he lose wealth. There was no fund like with BP.

But these sorts of things are like barnacles on a yacht. They're ugly as shit if you study them up close, but they don't really matter. I don't have rose-colored glasses. I have the correct perspective. These "harsh" working conditions and factory fires and mine work for children replaced a life of toil on the family farm.

As far as "it didn't really work out that well"? you're just a crazy person. It worked fantastically well.