What is Your Religion?

[TheGillotine]

Originally Posted by lovmath

Can you name any man who has more impact on humanity than Jesus....

This man does not lie....therefore God exists...

Aristotle.

[Hugh Jass]

Originally Posted by lovmath

Can you name any man who has more impact on humanity than Jesus....

This man does not lie....therefore God exists...

[Funemployed]

Originally Posted by V1per41

No one said that the evidence disproves the existence of a deity. I'm simply saying that with our current understanding of the universe there is no reason to postulate that one exists. The burden of proof lies with claimant.

I've never heard someone claim that cosmology isn't a valid science, I'm curious why would insinuate that it might not be.

You might want to try reading Romans chapter 1

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The glory of God's creation, itself, is evidence enough that there is a God

[Vorian Atreides]

Originally Posted by TheGillotine

If I was certain of God's nonexistence I wouldn't bother with the topic at all. Rather, I am thoroughly unconvinced by the arguments put forward by theists for their beliefs. I remain hopeful that the argument I'm looking for might exist. A part of me wants to believe that God exists, but a more important part of me wants to understand why people believe that God exists. Don't get me wrong, as a former theist I *do* understand what it is like to believe that God exists, but when presented with the line of reasoning I've given and seen given on this and other forums, I was forced to reconsider my beliefs. I have seen no such consideration by these theists. I expect such conviction to have a strong justification, and I've asked what gives them such conviction. What I've heard is "The fool says in his heart there is no god" and "I'm happier now that I'm a Christian" and "The Bible says God exists". I don't believe that these reasons would be convincing to an intelligent human being. It follows that the true reason for their beliefs remains hidden, and I must continually prod them to reveal it.

Fair enough.

What's your take on those who claim to have had a "Damascus Road" experience? (Not from the tele-evangelists types, but someone who has earned your trust and respect.)

[Hugh Jass]

Originally Posted by Funemployed

You might want to try reading Romans chapter 1



The glory of God's creation, itself, is evidence enough that there is a God

Even turds?

[Buck]

Originally Posted by lovmath

Can you name any man who has more impact on humanity than Jesus....

This man does not lie....therefore God exists...

Using Jesus to prove God is the same thing as using Bible to prove God -- both cases are circular logic.

[Vorian Atreides]

Originally Posted by Funemployed

The glory of God's creation, itself, is evidence enough that there is a God

That's a pretty terse summary written by one believer to a group of believers.

Care to fill in the rest of the argument that's applicable for those who don't believe?

[Hugh Jass]

Originally Posted by Vorian Atreides

Fair enough.

What's your take on those who claim to have had a "Damascus Road" experience? (Not from the tele-evangelists types, but someone who has earned your trust and respect.)

Damascus Road = ?

[Funemployed]

Originally Posted by Buck

God does not have any more knowledge and wisdom than humans -- because humans have to put words in god's mouth, "God said ____". Another problem with God is: truth, knowledge and wisdoms evolve over time; as soon as humans put words in God's mouth, God is about to become wrong again.

So tell me, what human came up with the idea that you are supposed to love your enemy and feed him when he's hungry and clothe him when he's naked? Because honestly, from a rational human standpoint, that's craziness.

[Vorian Atreides]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jass

Damascus Road = ?

Read Acts 9:1-22. Note that Saul later changes his name to Paul, the apostle who wrote several of the letters that turn into books of the new testament.