Economics PhD out of reach?

[extrovertedactuary]

Originally Posted by AEG

How many course credits does a reguler undergraduate actuarial science program requires for graduation?

124 semester hours, which is the same as many majors.

Expect about 38-44 credits in actuarial or core math classes:
-Calculus 1-3 (12 credits)
-Linear Algebra (3)
-P-related class, FM-related class (7-8)
-1-2 MFE-related classes (4-6)
-2 MLC-related classes (6)
-2-3 C-related classes (6-9)

If the actuarial science program is in a college of business, then you will have to take a whole bunch more business courses.

[jas66Kent]

No way at 500k man. I'd be very surprised if it was over 250k (Euros)($325k USD)

I know plenty of people in Industry in Eastern Europe and the southern European countries, and the only people that make that much are the people that work for the IO's (EBRD, IMF, WB, UN, FAO etc..). And those people are very high on up in their respective organizations. (They can make 300-400k Euros/year)

[jas66Kent]

Originally Posted by AEG

Someone I know with 2 SOA exams and no industrial experience was offered a position with 120k/year. I'm pretty sure an FSA would make 500k.

Edit: While salary surveys are not done in Turkey and I don't know the exact salary, the pay must be around this number since life is VERY expensive in Istanbul, and most of the actuaries with that much experience can easily establish their own firm without having any financial difficulties. Also, I personally know some of them, they practically live like kings/queens.

I don't want to pursue an actuarial career in Turkey because:

1- I hate Istanbul and I don't want to live there. No amount of money can convince me to live in a city that will collapse in an an earthquake of magnitude 6.0. Even though that an earthquake of this magnitiude will happen during my life time is not very likely, I am scared as hell of eathquakes so I'm not gonna move to Istanbul. (The buildings are not built accordingly to the standars, nothing ever works properly in Turkey)

2- As I said previously, those positions are filled and newcomer actuaries don't make enough money to be able to live like a human being in Istanbul even though they (we) have better, more solid credentials than those people. Eventually those positions are going to open, then I may consider applying.

All in all, I have very personal reasons not to pursue an actuarial career in Turkey, but anywhere else in the world I'd be happy to work as an actuary. Just not in Turkey.

Well, that's understandable as your PM seems hell bent on rolling back most of your freedoms and then converting your entire country into some kind of Quasi-Islamic state.

[Enough Exams Already]

Originally Posted by AEG

Someone I know with 2 SOA exams and no industrial experience was offered a position with 120k/year. I'm pretty sure an FSA would make 500k.

Edit: While salary surveys are not done in Turkey and I don't know the exact salary, the pay must be around this number since life is VERY expensive in Istanbul, and most of the actuaries with that much experience can easily establish their own firm without having any financial difficulties. Also, I personally know some of them, they practically live like kings/queens.

I don't want to pursue an actuarial career in Turkey because:

1- I hate Istanbul and I don't want to live there. No amount of money can convince me to live in a city that will collapse in an an earthquake of magnitude 6.0. Even though that an earthquake of this magnitiude will happen during my life time is not very likely, I am scared as hell of eathquakes so I'm not gonna move to Istanbul. (The buildings are not built accordingly to the standars, nothing ever works properly in Turkey)

2- As I said previously, those positions are filled and newcomer actuaries don't make enough money to be able to live like a human being in Istanbul even though they (we) have better, more solid credentials than those people. Eventually those positions are going to open, then I may consider applying.

All in all, I have very personal reasons not to pursue an actuarial career in Turkey, but anywhere else in the world I'd be happy to work as an actuary. Just not in Turkey.

120,000 what? USD or TRY? If it's TRY, 120,000 TRY is roughly 64,400 USD, and for 2 exams and no experience, that sounds reasonable; I can believe that. 120,000 USD for 2 exams and no experience sounds like a lie. Istanbul may be expensive, but it's not more expensive than NYC. And a 2-exam, no-experience actuary would not make 120,000 USD in NYC.

[AEG]

Originally Posted by Enough Exams Already

120,000 what? USD or TRY? If it's TRY, 120,000 TRY is roughly 64,400 USD, and for 2 exams and no experience, that sounds reasonable; I can believe that. 120,000 USD for 2 exams and no experience sounds like a lie. Istanbul may be expensive, but it's not more expensive than NYC. And a 2-exam, no-experience actuary would not make 120,000 USD in NYC.

It is USD and that's what I have been told but it could be a mistake. The conversation was shocking enough anyways back then. But, assuming what I have been told is true, it would be unreasonable for an FSA to be paid 250k.

As I said, there are no salary surveys done in Turkey and I definitely don't know the exact number. This is just a personal estimate based on personal data of the people I know. Once again, I have been told that the currency was USD but I checked the US surveys and 120k USD salary doesn't seem reasonable to me either. But regardless of it, FSAs make a hell of a living in Turkey, provided they can get a job.

Well, that's understandable as your PM seems hell bent on rolling back most of your freedoms and then converting your entire country into some kind of Quasi-Islamic state

Exactly my point. Being a non-Muslim, this place is insufferable for me. And getting worse... Ofc I have nothing against Muslims (my parents are Muslims) I am just sick of people imposing their beliefs on me and people like me. Not to mention the deep political corruption in every stage of governance and sadly in most private institutions...

[joni308]

Sorry, still not believing a word of all the above. These guys are talking about a datapoint or 2, and even that may be questionable, and they are creating a salary report out of it.

Here's my take:
1. Either these numbers are way off and by no way represent the reality OR
2. These numbers are indeed correct but that's only because the profession is very young there are currently very very few actuaries working in this field to the point you can't even call it a profession yet. They need their expertise and skills so they pay them a lot. In this case, I have 2 more comments:
a. No way a student makes 120K. A student has nothing to offer.
b. This won't continue for too long. More and more actuaries will come in and flood the market and actuary will become just another job with a normal salary.

Simple as that.

[AEG]

Originally Posted by joni308

Sorry, still not believing a word of all the above. These guys are talking about a datapoint or 2, and even that may be questionable, and they are creating a salary report out of it.

Here's my take:
1. Either these numbers are way off and by no way represent the reality OR
2. These numbers are indeed correct but that's only because the profession is very young there are currently very very few actuaries working in this field to the point you can't even call it a profession yet. They need their expertise and skills so they pay them a lot. In this case, I have 2 more comments:
a. No way a student makes 120K. A student has nothing to offer.
b. This won't continue for too long. More and more actuaries will come in and flood the market and actuary will become just another job with a normal salary.

Simple as that.

That is correct. There are only around 130 credentialed actuaries in Turkey. Considerable amount is academic, some of them are retired, most of them are executives since it's been ages since they are admitted as qualified actuaries (Those are the ones with no exams nor academic study). I believe there are about 50 credentialed actuaries currently active in the field.

This definitely won't continue for too long. Already there are new actuaries breaking into the field and entry level salaries are dropping pretty fast. An FSA is still very valuable though.

TBH I think the current number of actuaries is enough considering there are only about 50 insurance companies in Turkey, and they only employ actuaries in HQ. Not to mention the simplicity of the actuarial work the insurance companies require of those actuaries. (I have been told that it was basically accounting by a senior actuary). They barely even do model fitting. (Lack of viable data plays a role in this) It is true that actuaries currently make a lot but this will end very soon. I was one of the lucky bunch to graduate when the topic was still hot. I got hired right away. I don't see that happening for future graduates. Either they will be given the idiotic jobs or they will not get hired at all. As I said, the only way to evade this is to be close to certain people.

[AAABBBCCC]

Originally Posted by AEG

That is correct. There are only around 130 credentialed actuaries in Turkey. Considerable amount is academic, some of them are retired, most of them are executives since it's been ages since they are admitted as qualified actuaries (Those are the ones with no exams nor academic study). I believe there are about 50 credentialed actuaries currently active in the field.
This definitely won't continue for too long. Already there are new actuaries breaking into the field and entry level salaries are dropping pretty fast. An FSA is still very valuable though.

TBH I think the current number of actuaries is enough considering there are only about 50 insurance companies in Turkey, and they only employ actuaries in HQ. Not to mention the simplicity of the actuarial work the insurance companies require of those actuaries. (I have been told that it was basically accounting by a senior actuary). They barely even do model fitting. (Lack of viable data plays a role in this) It is true that actuaries currently make a lot but this will end very soon. I was one of the lucky bunch to graduate when the topic was still hot. I got hired right away. I don't see that happening for future graduates. Either they will be given the idiotic jobs or they will not get hired at all. As I said, the only way to evade this is to be close to certain people.

LOL

[AEG]

Originally Posted by AAABBBCCC

LOL

Everybody is hoping the industry will expand rapidly in next 10 year. I personally don't see it happening. At least not fast enough to actually matter.

[Annie Howe]

Originally Posted by AEG

Exactly my point. Being a non-Muslim, this place is insufferable for me. And getting worse... Ofc I have nothing against Muslims (my parents are Muslims) I am just sick of people imposing their beliefs on me and people like me. Not to mention the deep political corruption in every stage of governance and sadly in most private institutions...

I feel bad because people like you and me are getting out instead of staying and fighting, but not much can be done.

Even with the current political situation though, Turkey is still secular and modern. I know it doesn't look that way when you are living there, losing some small personal freedom everyday, but it is still much better to live in Turkey than almost all other countries with majority muslim populations. Albania is one exception I can think of.