You are required to buy health insurance

[mathmajor]

Originally Posted by FormLetter

This link:
http://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/c...hcare-by-date/

...says 3 countries had universal health care systems in place before Germany.

Okay, you're right - their government-subsidized healthcare service began in 1883 but it didn't go full universal until WW2 ended.

http://www.deutsche-sozialversicheru...h/history.html

[CedarTree]

Is the German economy really stomping us though? That was the part I questioned more.

[wolferine]

Originally Posted by mathmajor

Except the country that has the oldest universal health care system (Germany) is stomping us.

This is so freakin stupid.

One might as well say, Texas has a kick ass economy and low unemployment and yet they have many uninsured there. Meanwhile, Massachusettes economy sucks and has higher unemployment yet they have universal coverage. Clearly we should stay away from universal coverage as it will cost jobs. Frankly, that is a better argument. I suspect US states are more comparable to the US as a whole than Germany is to the US.

[mathmajor]

Originally Posted by CedarTree

Is the German economy really stomping us though? That was the part I questioned more.

Their GDP growth is impressive when you consider their proximity to the European crisis. Unemployment is in the 5's. Their income disparity isn't as insane as ours. Pretty good indicators.

[wolferine]

Originally Posted by CedarTree

Is the German economy really stomping us though? That was the part I questioned more.

Add in portugal, italy, greece and spain and how's that look?

[wolferine]

Originally Posted by mathmajor

Their GDP growth is impressive when you consider their proximity to the European crisis. Unemployment is in the 5's. Their income disparity isn't as insane as ours. Pretty good indicators.

Income disparity? OMG, a dyed in the wool socialist who gravitates to income disparity metrics. Gee, I wonder why Germany does not have as big of an underclass welfare state as the US. Do you subscribe to the theory of the Arian super race as well?

[Academic Actuary]

Originally Posted by wolferine

This is so freakin stupid.

One might as well say, Texas has a kick ass economy and low unemployment and yet they have many uninsured there. Meanwhile, Massachusettes economy sucks and has higher unemployment yet they have universal coverage. Clearly we should stay away from universal coverage as it will cost jobs. Frankly, that is a better argument. I suspect US states are more comparable to the US as a whole than Germany is to the US.

Please support your assertion that that the economy in Massachusetts sucks in relation to that of Texas. Last I saw Mass had an unemployment rate of 6.0% and a per capita income of 51,552 while Texas was at 6.9% with a per capita income of $39,493.

You refer to an argument as stupid yet all you are able to do is repeat a unsubstantiated claim that universal health care will cost jobs.

[wolferine]

Originally Posted by Not Mike

And I had turkey chili for lunch. Not sure what either has to do with the concept of health insurance, but it was damn good chili.

Erose and others were saying, it's ok for the government to take away individual freedom as long as it is for a good cause. Forcing people to buy insurance and taking away their free choice is all right because it eliminates a free rider problem. I am merely pointing out that once you start down the path of the ends justify the means then it becomes more difficult to limit government control and authority.

People agree criminals should go to jail. So why do we have to protect criminal's rights? Why require the government to get search warrants? If they did not need to get search warrants, presumably they could catch more criminals. And if you are innocent, then so what, they do not find anything. So clearly eliminating the requirement for search warrants is a good thing that we should be able to justify under the commerce clause. Fewer criminals will be good for commerce and interstate trade.

Based on the liberal healthcare debate, individual freedom to choose to buy or not, and corporate freedom to pick a health plan and what to cover has no importance or so little that it gets trampled for what they consider to be the public good. I view that as slippery slope toward eliminating more freedoms and rights, as an example, the right to privacy or unauthorized searches and the need for warrants.

[Academic Actuary]

In your slippery slope argument you forgot to mention the compulsory consumption of brocolli.

[wolferine]

Originally Posted by Academic Actuary

Please support your assertion that that the economy in Massachusetts sucks in relation to that of Texas. Last I saw Mass had an unemployment rate of 6.0% and a per capita income of 51,552 while Texas was at 6.9% with a per capita income of $39,493.

You refer to an argument as stupid yet all you are able to do is repeat a unsubstantiated claim that universal health care will cost jobs.

I was just making up examples without real data similar to your claiming that Germany was the first country with national healthcare program when they were in fact 3rd.

Per capita income I'm sure is lower in Texas because they are a border state with many newly immigrated legal and illegal aliens. Maybe go to recent job creation in terms of numbers of jobs. Is MA population growing as fast as Texas? Why are so many people moving to Texas? More opportunity?