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Old 05-17-2013, 04:52 PM
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Angry Goldman’s Global Oil Scam Passes the 50 Madoff Mark

I don't see a business section - so here it goes.

WOW.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gue...50-madoff-mark

"It’s a number so large that, to put it in perspective, we will now begin measuring the damage done to the global economy in "Madoff Units" ($50Bn rip-offs). That’s right - $2.5Tn is 50 TIMES the amount of money that Bernie Madoff scammed from investors in his lifetime, yet it is also LESS than the MONTHLY EXCESS price the global population is being manipulated into paying for a barrel of oil.

Where is the outrage? Where are the investigations?

Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, BP, TOT, Shell, DB and Societe General founded the Intercontinental Exchange in 2000. ICE is an online commodities and futures marketplace. It is outside the US and operates free from the constraints of US laws. The exchange was set up to facilitate "dark pool" trading in the commodities markets. Billions of dollars are being placed on oil futures contracts at the ICE and the beauty of this scam is that they NEVER take delivery, per se. They just ratchet up the price with leveraged speculation using your TARP money. This year alone they ratcheted up the global cost of oil from $40 to $80 per barrel."

furthermore:

"A Congressional investigation into energy trading in 2003 discovered that ICE was being used to facilitate "round-trip" trades. Round-trip” trades occur when one firm sells energy to another and then the second firm simultaneously sells the same amount of energy back to the first company at exactly the same price. No commodity ever changes hands. But when done on an exchange, these transactions send a price signal to the market and they artificially boost revenue for the company. This is nothing more than a massive fraud, pure and simple"
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Last edited by RazorGuns; 05-17-2013 at 04:59 PM..
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:00 PM
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sucks you and I have no way of making money from these scams. If we did this alone, we'd be in jail.

Goldman Sachs Admits Record Speculation To Blame For Skyrocketing Gas Prices
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/201...rs-gas-prices/
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:07 PM
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So one company sells imaginary oil to another company, who sells the imaginary oil back to the original company at exactly the same price, and somehow this causes the price of actual oil to go up because people have somehow been tricked into thinking this exchange took place at actual market price of oil.

I refuse to believe that people who buy and sell actual oil aren't smart enough to be able to figure that trick out, and adjust their pricing models to adjust for it, to the tune of costing themselves TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. It just doesn't pass the smell test.
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:09 PM
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It does. Look how much Koch made from speculation:

http://thinkprogress.org/report/koch...ion/?mobile=nc

and I posted a link where even GS admits it.

"Excessive energy speculation today is at its highest levels ever, and even Goldman Sachs now admits that at least $27 of the price of crude oil is a result from reckless speculation rather than market fundamentals of supply and demand. Many experts interviewed by ThinkProgress argue that the figure is far higher, and out of control speculation has doubled the current price of crude oil."
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:13 PM
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how to become an oil speculator.

http://www.time.com/time/business/ar...915359,00.html

If I had the money I wouldn't mind risking $10k and getting into this biz since oil will always rise. Seems little info on the web mainly cuz they don't want too many entering it.
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:14 PM
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But how is it possible that the price of oil is higher than the equilibrium price which would be result of the fundamentals of supply and demand? If oil costs $27 per barrel higher than the market dictates, there should be a huge drop in demand.

It seems more likely to me that the demand curve for oil is fairly inelastic, and therefore the price has been artificially low for a while, and some smart guys have figured out a way to capture some of that value for themselves. Essentially acting as scalpers.
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:16 PM
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ITT: BRM argues that Goldman Sachs can't possibly manipulate prices on the most politicized commodity in the world because EMH.
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:21 PM
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Well thanks for being right up on top of this. I think Rickson posted these years ago.
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repair Man View Post
But how is it possible that the price of oil is higher than the equilibrium price which would be result of the fundamentals of supply and demand? If oil costs $27 per barrel higher than the market dictates, there should be a huge drop in demand.
Dunno. Ask GS or Koch, they're raking in the big bucks while everything on the web says "it's risky and you will lose money trading oil contracts".

Either they're "supergeniuses" or they got their supercomputers to give them huge advantages & the edge.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorGuns View Post
Dunno. Ask GS or Koch, they're raking in the big bucks while everything on the web says "it's risky and you will lose money trading oil contracts".

Either they're "supergeniuses" or they got their supercomputers to give them huge advantages & the edge.
False dichotomy.
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